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2db drop between 2 khorns - normal???


Dylanl

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I have a set of 1974 khorns and I'm noticing that I have a 2db loss in bass coming out of the bass bin on my left speaker. I tested both speakers with an SPL meter through the same passage of music. Is this normal or could something be wrong? I checked all my connections inside and outside the cabinet and the only difference I could find is one speaker is against 2 cement block walls and the other has only one wall that is cement block and the other is studs and drywall. I'd appreciate any help. I'm baffled.

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"I'm baffled."

Nice play on words. :)

I don't think it's all that unusual to get that kind of difference between speakers when you factor in placement issues -- and in your case, a good difference in material behind the Klipschorns. So, should I guess that one with cement blocks all the way around has higher bass output than the one with one section backed up against drywall? Not surprising, as you are undoubtably getting some loss through the drywall section.

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Just did another test move speaker a to the b position and speaker a is still down by 2 db to 3 db. I also switched the leads comming out of the amp with the same result. So, it can not be placement it has to be the speaker. What could cause this? Are there any tests I could preform on the woofers to see if they are both O.K.?

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The Cornwalls I had in here at one were like that - tried everything - and finally gave up - and resorted to using the ever cursed balance control.9.gif

You can start by tightening the screws and see if it makes a difference. If it does, mind as well remove the wiring from the terminal stips and clean them with denatured alcohol.

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Im redoing some Ks right now and found in a little test i made that the so called airtight chamber behind the woofer is in no way airtight,,,so after using alot of silicone and a few more tests i got one much more tight than it was. So one of yours may have a big leak in it and the other one a little leak .in the ones im redoing all the joints seemed solid, glue looked good but air went out as fast as i put it in,,,just a thought,,,it easy test to do,,,Rick

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I tested at 110db and 100db on the SPL meter. It does not make a difference whatever the SPL level 1 speaker reading is always higher the other is 2-3 db lower. I disconnected all drivers but the base bin. I placed the meter at exactly the same place on both speakers (right at the throat). Could this be my crossovers? The reason I even tried this is by ear you can hear a large difference.

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It could even be that one of your mids is on a different set of taps on the T2A Autoformer on the AA network. It sounds like you are measuring the midhorn output primarily and not the entire speaker as a whole? I would check the woofer and the woofer connections in the bass bin as well. Check for a good seal of the bass bin, the weatherstripping is most likely deteriorated. Another thought is to swap out the K-55V driver itself over to the other speaker and see if the 2-3db drop follows the mid driver, if it does not the crossover could be at fault somewhere. First check to see if the midranges are connected to the identical taps on the T2A. See if any of the above helps.

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Sounds like its an acoustical problem, rather than an electrical one - but who knows?

I have a couple of questions:

Are the Khorns matching in age? i.e., are the K33 drivers the same vintage? are they old?

Assuming that the drivers are virtually matched, the only other thing to do is check the cabinet in question for air leaks in the back-chamber. This would definitely lower the bass response.

DM2.gif

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Well it sounds like you've got a crossover problem:

You already tried swapping location and the problem followed the speaker. This means that acoustics are not the problem.

You swapped speaker cables and the problem remained with the speaker. This means it's not your amp or anything else upstream.

You swapped drivers and the problem did not follow the driver.

Thus, the problem must be between the driver and the crossover. OR, the problem is with the bass bin itself. I'm not familiar enough with the crossover, but would it be easy to run a test after switching the crossovers? If you find that the problem doesn't follow the crossover, then you probably have some kind of leak inside the bass cabinet. If you have test tones, I would suggest trying to get an idea of the difference in frequency response. A bass horn with a leak will have much less lower extension than one without a leak. Knowing the frequency response will let us know if this is the issue.

Anyways, being that your speakers are so old, I would hypothesize that a cap in your crossover has probably gone bad.

Now that I think about it...you may want to do another frequency response test with the midrange driver plugged in too. It's possible that a bad cap could cause an increase in 2dB, which means the speaker with the flattest response between the two drivers is most likeley the unbroken one.

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Sorry if my last description was hard to follow. When I switched drivers (K33) from 1 bin to the other the problem also moved. Funny thing the woofer looks fine. Are ther any tests that could be run on the k33 itself? I also swapped crossovers and the results showed that they were not the problem.

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I would think that its unlikely that the crossover would suck up 2db, but one or more bad, oxidized connection or solder joint, or badly corroded wires could do it, in theory, but it would have to be quite resistive. IMO, one could expect to actually hear that kind of problem, though...

More than likely, it's an air leak in the back chamber as previously reported by ricktate, but that's just a guess.

DM2.gif

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On the new drivers are the sonics the same? Does anyone have any thought to how the 2 speakers could be that much different? The tech. at Klipsch told me that 3db between a matched pair of woofers is an industry standard. Is this true? If I purchase a new pair could I end up with the same problem?

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