ben. Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Having just committed to an almost-new Scout, I'm trying to get a jump on the thought process of placement issues. Any experiences you guys may have had would be appreciated. My initial idea is wall mount to studs on outside wall, with a layer of sorbothane under each spike and the motor assembly. Also, a layer of granite or wood or something between the sorbo and the mount itself, just for mass. I'm also thinking that it might be a good idea to place something hard between the cones and the soft sorbothane, but that would defeat the function of the cones, too... Boy, they're purty, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Ben, Congratulations on your Scout purchase. Why are you going to use a wall mount? Is your floor subject to minor vibrations or footsteps? Do you have a stand with substantial mass available to place the turntable on? There are several scenarios that should work well with the Scout, depending on your situation. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Well, here's pic of what I have available. It's pretty heavy, as those are 3/4" rods, and real cherry cabinet grade ply. With all the associated gear (MC-30 and Paragon, obviously in place of the Scott), I would WAG (wild arse guess) it at around 150lbs, possibly more. Footfalls are a problem. With a sprung deck like the old AR, it's not really a major issue. The house is 60+ years old, with wood floors, and joist/beam construction. I can make the platter dance pretty easily be shifting my weight when standing near the rack. It's on some OK small industrial nylon vibration dampers, but they obviously do nothing to counteract the flexing of the floor. A paving stone or something like that might take care of that issue, but there are other issues here. I'm catching some serious flak (well, as serious as I get, which is really, really minor compared to almost everyone I know) about the aesthetics of the room. It is our living room, and wifey's getting tired of looking at the stereo. So my reaction to that is to have my cabinet/wood guy build us an armoire to hide all the gear and the 36" HDTV in one unit. RFI issues scare me, but what can one do? We'll have to cross that bridge when we get there. Any way, I'm thinking video gear underneath the TV, leaving the audio stuff above it, and out of reach for litlle Miles, who is beginning to develop some troublesome mobility to match his already frightening interest in anything knobbed or buttoned. Those of you with children, this is nothing new. Here it is now: So, if the armoire has a big hole in the back for a wall mount to stick into, and some big, hidden, and lockable casters on each leg, this thing might work. A removable back section is a must as well. A drawback to this idea is that all the gear would be centered between the Khorns, wich are only about 17 feet apart. I haven't done a feel test to the wall to see how bad vibrations get at DeanG levels, but I have an inkling they won;t be too bad, as the house is well built. Real, thick plaster walls (no drywall here) and poured/block basement construction. The wall in question will be load bearing, as it is the front of the house. What am I forgetting? What should I worry about or disregard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hmm, also, I see that both you (Edmond) and Tom (rf3iicrazy) use the VPI phono cables. Where can one buy them? Price? Did you audition much else, etc? The guy I'm getting the Scout from insists that ribbon cables are the only geometry to consider for phono ICs, but... I've read some positive things in the AA archives about the VPI with the JMW line, but my arm will have VDH silver wire, so that may not hold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Ben, congrats on the Scout. I know you want to keep staring at your gear, but the wife's probably pushing you to the armoire. I have been in tons of houses with these things and they totally dominate a room, suck light out of the place and scew the balance between furniture, wall hangings and ambience. They are also starting to fall out of favor with the well heeled and designer set. For the cost of one of those monstors you could have a flat screen tv, keep the flexy table and keep your room from turning into a cave. I'm a painting contractor working in the high end suburbs of Washington, and unless you've got a huge, and I mean huge, room these are a fashion no,no. Despite my every effort not to learn about this stuff, I've been around too many designers, interior decorators and people that can afford the best, not to have picked up some of this stuff. Keep the eclectic dark toned look for the living room, keep the furniture in proportion to the room, and lose your current colors. Try a white ceiling with a mid-tone yellow edging towards beige for a mixture of cool and soft colors. You could also try a mid-chocolate brown but you might end with too much of a dark look. You'll end up with a room both of you will feel very at ease in yet noticably fashionable. Just reread above and I've decided if I keep this up I'm going to end up a prancing rather then walking. Seriously, share my post with your wife. It's a well meant suggestion. Also, buy some some small 4" pavers for the flexy, clean them and spray with 2 or 3 coats of varnish to darken them to the color of the floor.This should isolate all the jingles and jangles so you can send me the old TT and place the new one right where it's convenient to get to-on top of the flexy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 ---------------- I have been in tons of houses with these things and they totally dominate a room, suck light out of the place and scew the balance between furniture, wall hangings and ambience. They are also starting to fall out of favor...keep the furniture in proportion to the room---------------- Very nicely stated, Marty! I agree that adding big dark furniture there could be a downer. Ben, where is your current 2-channel rack and how does the signal get to the K-horns? I also have my K-horns in a small living room, in an older house with shaky wooden floors and plaster walls. To solve my problems with space, decor, and shaky floors, I put only the K's and monobloc amps in my living room; almost all other equipment in the next room; ran the wire (amp interconnects in my case) through the baseboards between the speaks/amps and the other stuff; and mounted the TT on a Target wall mount rack, one side of which is screwed into a stud for great holding power. I have NO problems with a dancing TT (it used to be a horror story), and my LR decor is acceptable to me and possibly a few others. The big disadvantage is running into the next room to flip an LP or CD and changing the volume up or down. Worth it and works for me. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 My khorns are also in a room by themselves also but since it's a basement (part finished, part not) it's a different situation. I did however have an armoir in my family room at one time holding the tv and all my gear. I thought it was OK until we took it out. Never again. The room became soooo much bigger, roomier, lighter, etc. My guess is you'd regret it. JMHO. I think you'll want a wall mount unless you can get a nice sink (expensive and still not a total solution for skips). If there's any way to put the table in different (but close) room, you may find it to be a better situation, especially for keeping little Miles away. Very tempting toy for a young one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 ---------------- On 9/30/2004 3:45:05 PM bclarke421 wrote: My initial idea is wall mount to studs on outside wall, with a layer of sorbothane under each spike and the motor assembly. Also, a layer of granite or wood or something between the sorbo and the mount itself, just for mass.... ---------------- Even with mounting the TT on a wall-mount rack like a Target, I agree that playing around with additional isolation like strategic sorbothane might be useful. I found that a Townshend sink (not cheap) like the one Gary mentioned smoothed the sound somewhat. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 ---------------- On 9/30/2004 3:45:05 PM bclarke421 wrote: Having just committed to an almost-new Scout, I'm trying to get a jump on the thought process of placement issues. Any experiences you guys may have had would be appreciated. My initial idea is wall mount to studs on outside wall, with a layer of sorbothane under each spike and the motor assembly. Also, a layer of granite or wood or something between the sorbo and the mount itself, just for mass. I'm also thinking that it might be a good idea to place something hard between the cones and the soft sorbothane, but that would defeat the function of the cones, too... Boy, they're purty, though... http://www.vpiindustries.com/images/ariesscout_main.gif" border=0> ---------------- I would treat your wood floor with Boiled Linseed Oil, no question about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 ---------------- On 10/2/2004 12:12:17 PM radiob wrote: I would treat your wood floor with Boiled Linseed Oil, no question about it! ---------------- Heh, good one! The cherry boards are tung oiled, BTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 ---------------- On 10/1/2004 5:21:21 PM thebes wrote: Ben, congrats on the Scout. I know you want to keep staring at your gear, but the wife's probably pushing you to the armoire. I have been in tons of houses with these things and they totally dominate a room, suck light out of the place and scew the balance between furniture, wall hangings and ambience. They are also starting to fall out of favor with the well heeled and designer set. For the cost of one of those monstors you could have a flat screen tv, keep the flexy table and keep your room from turning into a cave. I'm a painting contractor working in the high end suburbs of Washington, and unless you've got a huge, and I mean huge, room these are a fashion no,no. Despite my every effort not to learn about this stuff, I've been around too many designers, interior decorators and people that can afford the best, not to have picked up some of this stuff. Keep the eclectic dark toned look for the living room, keep the furniture in proportion to the room, and lose your current colors. Try a white ceiling with a mid-tone yellow edging towards beige for a mixture of cool and soft colors. You could also try a mid-chocolate brown but you might end with too much of a dark look. You'll end up with a room both of you will feel very at ease in yet noticably fashionable. Just reread above and I've decided if I keep this up I'm going to end up a prancing rather then walking. Seriously, share my post with your wife. It's a well meant suggestion. Also, buy some some small 4" pavers for the flexy, clean them and spray with 2 or 3 coats of varnish to darken them to the color of the floor.This should isolate all the jingles and jangles so you can send me the old TT and place the new one right where it's convenient to get to-on top of the flexy. ---------------- Good points here, and appreciated (all of you). The trouble with keeping that open rack is that my son will destroy something at some point, and even if he doesn't, I don't want to constantly be concerned with it. Good notes about the colors, too. We actually have pretty close to that already, though just a plain white ceiling (no shift towards the edge-I've seen that and I do like the effect). Tha walls are Cafe Cubano, a medium brown. The color in that pic is pretty poor. Do you think keeping the color of an armoire med to light would help to mitigate its negative impact on the room? We had planned on losing that dark brown coffee table, and just using a couple small end tables instead, so that may help as well. I have been in tons of houses with these things and they totally dominate a room, suck light out of the place and scew the balance between furniture, wall hangings and ambience. My wife could say the same for the Klipschorns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 ---------------- On 10/1/2004 7:54:52 PM larryclare wrote: Ben, where is your current 2-channel rack and how does the signal get to the K-horns? I also have my K-horns in a small living room, in an older house with shaky wooden floors and plaster walls. To solve my problems with space, decor, and shaky floors, I put only the K's and monobloc amps in my living room; almost all other equipment in the next room; ran the wire (amp interconnects in my case) through the baseboards between the speaks/amps and the other stuff; and mounted the TT on a Target wall mount rack, one side of which is screwed into a stud for great holding power. I have NO problems with a dancing TT (it used to be a horror story), and my LR decor is acceptable to me and possibly a few others. The big disadvantage is running into the next room to flip an LP or CD and changing the volume up or down. Worth it and works for me. Larry ---------------- Out of frame on the room pic to the right (directly across from the TV, naturally) is a chair and sofa, and the flexi is next to the sofa. All the wires to the Khorns, and from the TV to the preamp are routed underneath the baseboard heat. Where the one speaker cable crosses the doorway, I have drilled holes in the floor, and routed the wire through the basement. I don't think I could put up with having any of the sources in an adjacent room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 Ben, yes a lighter color, say light oak, armoire will help offset some of the giant size, but again these things workd best in big rooms with high ceilings. If you're stuck going this route here's something elese to consider: go to oriental furniture on ebay and look at some of the armoire's listed. I just did a search and the stock is low right now but with a little patience you can find something really nice, drill some holes in back for cables and your on you way. Here's arough example of what I'm talking about: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63564&item=3751396493&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Also down my way in Washington, DC is a major importer of this stuff. Here's alink to their ebay store that shows their listings: http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=lubanartfurnitures They get several shipments a year and you can pick up a pretty good size armoire for I think about 500 bills, spend a weekend visiting the tourists sites and come home with the goodies. Finally I can't believe that your wife thinks Khorns are large, why they practically diappear into a room (tell her you'l let her put some artificial flowres n them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 ---------------- On 10/1/2004 11:49:49 AM bclarke421 wrote: Hmm, also, I see that both you (Edmond) and Tom (rf3iicrazy) use the VPI phono cables. Where can one buy them? Price? Did you audition much else, etc? The guy I'm getting the Scout from insists that ribbon cables are the only geometry to consider for phono ICs, but... I've read some positive things in the AA archives about the VPI with the JMW line, but my arm will have VDH silver wire, so that may not hold...---------------- I'm not sure what direction the VDH silver wire will take the JMW9 arm, but VPI took some care designing the arm and using some very high quality wiring within. The same gauge and quality of wire used in the JMW 9 arm, is the same wire in the VPI phono IC. You may want to consider one of the VDH silver core tonearm to preamp IC's if you can not interceed with the rewiring. Too bad the seller chose to dicker with the tonearm wiring, because the stock VPI wiring and matching IC are very good. The IC can be purchased direct from VPI. I tried several other brands before trying the VPI phono IC, and it was a hands down winner. The Scout is also not a suspended table design. The platter will not be flopping around due to floor born vibrations. I suggest a wait and see approach with that worry and NOT rush to purchase sorbethane. I will discuss that more with you, if you find the need after your table arrives. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 All seriousness, a freind of mine has the JW/scout combo, it is a world class performer, great choice. I kind of wish I had spent the extra 700.00 for it when I purchased my MH MMF-7. Oil-er up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 The Scout as setup in my system sounds incredible, solid, locked in larger then life imaging is the best I can describe it. The issue at hand is the IC's need to have good shielding. I used Nordost ribbon type cables and experienced radio broadcasting through my system. Not saying this will happen to you, but is a consideration. Jazzman is on par with the ideology behind using the VPI cables, although you having a inner wire change you may consider a different option as to match the wire through and through. Your gonna love the VPI sound! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Another compromise is the Salamander Design Furniture. Theyre available in Rack, Twin and Wall Mount type cabinets. Perforated steel doors, side panels and door lock kits are optional too. Maple as well as Cherry, Walnut and Black finishes. http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/syn/doors.jsphttp://www.salamanderdesigns.com/syn/doors.jsp' target=_blank> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Tho' I can't know your room demands/arrangements, I wonder if you couldn't keep the 2-channel stuff where it is now in something like a Salamander single width, with a TT rack mounted above it like Kev313's setup in the "Show me yours.." thread, and limit the front setup to the A/V equipment. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 ---------------- On 10/2/2004 5:50:28 PM thebes wrote: Ben, yes a lighter color, say light oak, armoire will help offset some of the giant size, but again these things workd best in big rooms with high ceilings. If you're stuck going this route here's something elese to consider: go to oriental furniture on ebay and look at some of the armoire's listed. I just did a search and the stock is low right now but with a little patience you can find something really nice, drill some holes in back for cables and your on you way. Here's arough example of what I'm talking about: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63564&item=3751396493&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Also down my way in Washington, DC is a major importer of this stuff. Here's alink to their ebay store that shows their listings: http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=lubanartfurnitures They get several shipments a year and you can pick up a pretty good size armoire for I think about 500 bills, spend a weekend visiting the tourists sites and come home with the goodies. Finally I can't believe that your wife thinks Khorns are large, why they practically diappear into a room (tell her you'l let her put some artificial flowres n them). ---------------- Thanks for the leads there. I think I pretty well am stuck going this route. Wifey's been talking about it for a few years now. I pretty well get what I want around the house, so I'm not going to buck her on this. I just hope it doesn't turn into the time I painted the kitchen three times in a month. She has a bit of a problem with visualization. Those Chinese pieces are nice, but I'm pretty sure we'll just get something made. That's the only way I think we'll get something that the huge 36" HDTV will fit into, and still keep it as small as possible. The cabinet guy cuts me super deals, too, as we send customers to each other on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 ---------------- On 10/3/2004 2:21:51 AM jazman wrote: I'm not sure what direction the VDH silver wire will take the JMW9 arm, but VPI took some care designing the arm and using some very high quality wiring within. The same gauge and quality of wire used in the JMW 9 arm, is the same wire in the VPI phono IC. You may want to consider one of the VDH silver core tonearm to preamp IC's if you can not interceed with the rewiring. Too bad the seller chose to dicker with the tonearm wiring, because the stock VPI wiring and matching IC are very good. The IC can be purchased direct from VPI. I tried several other brands before trying the VPI phono IC, and it was a hands down winner. The Scout is also not a suspended table design. The platter will not be flopping around due to floor born vibrations. I suggest a wait and see approach with that worry and NOT rush to purchase sorbethane. I will discuss that more with you, if you find the need after your table arrives. Klipsch out. ---------------- Yeah, it's kind of a shame. I'm relatively certain (which means "I hope") that the VDH is a great upgrade. I don't know why it's being done, but I will ask when we set the unit up. I really hope it is an approriate fit, as it is solid core wire. I'm a little bit concerned that it may not function as an anti-skate mechanism quite like Weisfeld intended. The seller's pretty sharp, though, so hopefully he considered this. As far as the deck flopping around, I know it won't dance like the AR; that was wriitten just to illustrate how vibey my floors are. I have a feeling I wouldn't be too crazy about a record skipping everytime my dog laid down. Seriously, it's like someone dropping a gun safe full of rocks off the back of a truck when the beast lays down. Sorbothane sheets from McMaster are cheap, so figure it would be worth a try. My mind is open on this, so I'd be interested to hear about what you guys have experienced. I realize that what works in one rig may pretty well suck in another sue to structural differences, differences in cartridge behavior, etc, etc, but I'm still curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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