nicholtl Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Hi Klipschers, so here's the deal: I have several new components and a box full of brand new powercords, XLR, and RCA interconnects. I need to burn/break them in as soon as possible so I can fully enjoy what they all have to offer. My question then, is whether this will work by having multiple source components (SACD player, dedicated CD player, etc.) playing their respective discs, but either having the preamp select a different source that is turned off (like "VCR," so that no sound is actually coming through the speakers), or simply having the volume turned all the way down with one of the applicable sources selected? What I'm trying to do is break-in everything at the same time, but wasn't sure if electric current was passing through the componenets and interconnects if they are not actually selected via the preamp, and/or the volume is turned all the way down (especially during sleeping hours)? Because with the volume off, doesn't that mean no signal is needed? The "normal" way of doing this, I realize, is to have each player play their disc for 100+ hours with the volume cranked, and then switching to the next component, and repeating. I was wondering if there's a kill-2-birds-with-1-stone method here. And I'm very sorry for the lack of eloquence in my inquiry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 If there is no current, there can be no "breaking in". In order to get current flow, it has to have a complete circuit. In the case of interconnects, the only current flow is in the selected "ACTIVE" component. That is, there is not a completed circuit THROUGH the select-switch, so there is NO CURRENT FLOW in the non-selected component inputs and no "break-in". Sorry, no way around that. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 So lemme get this straight...basically, the only way to accomplish this is to have the component that's playing something physically selected, and to have the volume at audible levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 If you aren't breaking in the speakers, they need not be turned on, that is, the amp need not amplify any signal and hence, the volume could be turned down all the way. The amp should be on to provide a load for the preamp, the preamp for the source component, etc. However, only the "SELECTED" source component and respective interconnect will actually have current flow... Make sense? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 Ok, I think I understand. Only you mentioning how the amp should provide a load for the preamp, and the preamp for the source component, leads me to ask if the speakers should be playing something so as to "need" that load from the amp, thus providing the chain-reaction down the line? My speakers don't need any breaking in, nor do the amps or preamp. But I have no problem leaving them all on. I just don't want them playing anything, because even music 24/7 is too much of a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Actually, in that case, then the amp could be off completely. The preamp should be on, of course, with the appropriate component and interconnect set to be "broken-in" selected. The amount of gain could be turned all the way down on it. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 Excellent! Then that'll save on my power bill, and let me get some sleep! Thanks a million D-man. You rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriven Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 ---------------- On 10/5/2004 4:55:47 PM D-MAN wrote: If there is no current, there can be no "breaking in". In order to get current flow, it has to have a complete circuit. ---------------- I think all, but can safely say that most, of my preamps short out the inputs that are not selected to reduce noise. That would cause an increased current flow on the inputs that are NOT selected. I also don't think you need to or can "break in" cables but you probably didn't want to hear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 6, 2004 Author Share Posted October 6, 2004 I've never really made it a point to objectively listen to a cable brand new, and then that same cable 100 hours later. I don't think I ever will, becasue that's just TOO HARDCORE. I find it very weird/strange/interesting/funny that most people on online communities fight adamantly against the "break-in" theory, and yet almost all magazine reviewers, boutique owners, and companies via their websites talk about break-in like an end-all, be-all rule. And yet they don't make any extra money off of it, so why would they lie? That's kind of what leads me to believe it works. AND... ...scientifically, it makes sense as well. What only has yet to be proven is how much of the sonic changes in characteristic are subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 ---------------- On 10/6/2004 1:50:08 AM nicholtl wrote: ... I find it very weird/strange/interesting/funny that most people on online communities fight adamantly against the "break-in" theory, and yet almost all magazine reviewers, boutique owners, and companies via their websites talk about break-in like an end-all, be-all rule. And yet they don't make any extra money off of it, so why would they lie? That's kind of what leads me to believe it works. ... ---------------- Because whether it is real or imagined, the effect compared to your OWN EARS breaking in is infinitesimal. People also seem to have problems at times distinguishing between an audible 'difference' and an 'improvement' ! RE: magazine reviewers, boutique owners, and companies I'm not trying to sell you anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 nicholtl: My friend; "snake oil and smoking mirrors" aside, it is not my intention to cast doubt on your opinion here. But, I wish to offer you a different point-of-view here, if I may, which you may choose either to adopt or cast aside. {I know, I know, "No, not does it work?"} Here goes... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION: Wire is wire. It's a conductor that carries electrons. I do not believe that it does so any differently whether it is new, or after it has carried current for 100 hours. If you feel that you can HEAR a difference after 100 hours of burn-in, that's great! I can't (and I too, have excellent hearing). As for speakers, yes I do believe that a burn-in period helps. And the reason for this is because it is an electro-MECHANICAL device. "Mechanical" being the operative, here. The speaker is a motor that moves in-and-out. I am certain they are probably more stiff when they are new. This stiffness offers some element of reistance to allow the cone to move freely, so I do believe the resistance diminishes over time through usage. Hence, a burn-in period would probably make an audible difference if you are in a hurry to get there. As far as receivers, amps and other non-mechanical electronic components, a little more that "just a conductor" is at stake here. We have inductors, resistors and capacitors, to name a few, that do "season" with usage. So yes, I do believe that burn-in might change the way the components sound. With regard to other components such as a turntable or the drive portion of a CD or DVD player; I beleieve that a burn-in period might provide a sum of diminshed returns here. The reason? As the drive belts, for instance, loosen and become more willing to bend and move, so comes with it the specter of WEAR to bearings, belts, etc.. With a burn-in period you are bringing yourself that much closer to the end, when things wear out. The same theory could be applied to speakers as well, which tells you why I do not burn in my equipment. I simply use it. But, to each his own here. I simply wanted you to listen to the other side of the story. Thanks for bearing with me and taking the time to review my opinion. Best of luck! Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Wire is wire. It's a conductor that carries electrons. I do not believe that it does so any differently whether it is new, or after it has carried current for 100 hours. If you feel that you can HEAR a difference after 100 hours of burn-in, that's great! I can't (and I too, have excellent hearing). **Can one remember what they had heard 100 hours ago? Regarding little subtle differences? As far as receivers, amps and other non-mechanical electronic components, a little more that "just a conductor" is at stake here. We have inductors, resistors and capacitors, to name a few, that do "season" with usage. So yes, I do believe that burn-in might change the way the components sound. **I agree, but from my experiences the break-in usually occurs within a hour or so, just enough for a unit to come up to operating temp. As to what sound a said device had a 100 hours ago prior compared to the present sound it has? That's a hard call to remember aurally for myself. With regard to other components such as a turntable or the drive portion of a CD or DVD player; I beleieve that a burn-in period might provide a sum of diminshed returns here. The reason? As the drive belts, for instance, loosen and become more willing to bend and move, so comes with it the specter of WEAR to bearings, belts, etc.. With a burn-in period you are bringing yourself that much closer to the end, when things wear out. The same theory could be applied to speakers as well, which tells you why I do not burn in my equipment. I simply use it. But, to each his own here. I simply wanted you to listen to the other side of the story. Thanks for bearing with me and taking the time to review my opinion. http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif"> Best of luck! Have fun! **I would think mechanical break-in and electrical break-in would be two different matters. I would guess a speaker would have mechanical break-in from the mechanical parts invloved, but the electrical break-in would occur pretty much as the voice coil warms up. I'm guessing..... Buy a variable AC transformer and use it for a cable burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 6, 2004 Author Share Posted October 6, 2004 Picky, Mike, wow. VERY insightful points there. Picky, you especially bring to light what I never thought about differentiating; that break in might be applicable to some components, non-existant to others, and what I never even considered -- that it could even be detrimental some! Facinating dilemna! So yeah, I think I will take your wise advice. Listen to it and enjoy it out of the box, for slapping 100-200 hours on it in hopes that it'll warm up the equipment brings me 100-200 hours closer to "the end," lol. Kinda like a cigarette brings you 5 minutes closer to the end. Or so I'm told. And what Mike said about at max, only an hour or so needed for the equipment (or speaker wire) to reach optimal operating temperature...that makes a lot of sense as well. So all in all, the way I'm summing this up is that if anything has moving parts, it is succeptible to the break in theory. Only it becomes divided into 2 camps: those components where a little breaking in is beneficial to their loosening of drivers etc., and those components where breaking in only wears the parts down that otherwise should be stiff and solid and rigid. Gosh..."loosening," 'stiff," "solid," you'd think we were talking about something else here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Mike: Good points! Sound nuances are actually one of the hardest things for a human being to recall. Hence the invention of the A/B test. However, many individuals claim they can and do remember various details in sound. Who am I to say they can't? The warm-up time period seems like a reasonable amount of time for the electronics to change sufficently. I have read where other members have stated actual time periods based on their own experiences...that's where the 100 hours-thing came from. But, who's right? I dunno. i could see where it might take longer for a speaker if it were particularly stiff. There's always been a lot of discussion about how it takes RF-7s quite a while to break in. I own a pair and at 2 years old they seem to sound about the same as they did when they were new.....except that the room has changed drastically (since finishing my theater connstruction), so I no longer have a benchmark from which to derive a conclusion any longer. As far as cable burners, I was thinking more in terms of an arc welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Picky, nicely done, but I still disagree... Now look what you started! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 6, 2004 Author Share Posted October 6, 2004 Among other things, my 260ft spool of 12AWG Liberty Ultracap THX speaker cable just arrived. My god, the spool is the size of a small rhino! Good thing break-in doesn't apply, cause I'd have one hell of a time trying to burn-in all this copper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 You're about to find out about cable "break-in"... Let us know what you think. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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