drick Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Hi, I need some assistance on speaker wire connections for my speakers (RF-7's, RC-7, RB-75's, RS-7's, and RSW-15). I had selected the Monster Cable THX 1000 series for all of speakers, but the sales guy said that i should change to "bi wire" for the fronts and center? Looking for some input on this. I pulled down all of the owners manuals for my speakers, and they aren't very helpful. Here is what i had originally (AV receiver, DirecTV Satellite receiver, TV, PS2, DVD): Monster THX 1000 Component - ULT V1000 CV-16 x2 Monster THX 1000 Optical - ULT I1000FO-8 x3 Monster THX 1000 Speaker - ULT S1000MT-10/10 x3 Monster THX 1000 Speaker - ULT S1000MT-20/20 x4 Monster THX 1000 Sub - ULT SUB1000-25 x1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Hi, sounds like a real company man... that sales guy. Some may hear a differance, and some may not. You could try with a cheaper cable, and hear for yourself, however you won't know if the more expensive wire would provide the sonics you seek. The debate continues.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 so the original cables i had would work fine? i was wondering if i had specified the wrong cables or something? I assume from your post that the bi wires are more expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 drick: Hi. I have pretty much an identical setup as you do except that I chose to use Tributaries cable. But, I think any 12-gauge copper cable will do just fine. I do not personnally hold much regard for the brand-name-game in wire. My setup sounds awesome to me and that's what matters. Best of luck and welcome to the forum. We're glad to have you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 hey picky, thanks for the info. this forum is VERY cool, and has been an excellent resource for me to narrow my search for my dream home theatre system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 ---------------- On 10/11/2004 1:00:23 PM picky wrote: drick: Hi. I have pretty much an identical setup as you do except that I chose to use Tributaries cable. But, I think any 12-gauge copper cable will do just fine. I do not personnally hold much regard for the brand-name-game in wire. My setup sounds awesome to me and that's what matters. Best of luck and welcome to the forum. We're glad to have you here. ---------------- picky. i took your advice, well mostly.. i used the bi wire for the fronts, center, and sub, but then used all 12 gauge flat cable for the surrounds and rears. This saved me a lot of money, and getting divorced, when my wife saw the immense THX speaker cables. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriven Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Hi Drick, Welcome to the forum! You have attempted, I assume unwittingly, to rekindle the great speaker wire debate! There are some here that insist that speaker wire that has some form of "magic dust" sprinkled on it sounds better that the lowly clumps of copper that others use to connect there speakers. (You may be able to discern my position on this debate from the prior statement.) Personally, I think that the overriding factor in speaker cable is the resistance that it adds to the circuit. To that end, I use the very nice, and relatively cheep, Home Depot 12 gage speaker wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 12:54:04 AM scriven wrote: Hi Drick, Welcome to the forum! You have attempted, I assume unwittingly, to rekindle the great speaker wire debate! There are some here that insist that speaker wire that has some form of "magic dust" sprinkled on it sounds better that the lowly clumps of copper that others use to connect there speakers. (You may be able to discern my position on this debate from the prior statement.) Personally, I think that the overriding factor in speaker cable is the resistance that it adds to the circuit. To that end, I use the very nice, and relatively cheep, Home Depot 12 gage speaker wire. ---------------- hey scriven, definitely unwittngly on that , hence the n00bie in my subject title. i think i fall into both camps (i.e. sucker for $$ cables, and 12 gage speaker wire being ok). at any rate, i'm sure that this will work either way right? i am not a audiophile YET, so at least this gets me in the door. Thnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 drick: Yeah, I like scriven's approach to the issue as well; I was addicted to 14-gauge lamp cord for years!! LOL (Seriously!) I've not tried bi-amping yet, mainly because I do not have the equipment, but I have heard from others on this forum that there is an improvement (smoothing) in the lower-end transistion over to the RSW subwoofer when bi-amping. Perhaps, I will become more adventuresome in the future. As for right now, the wife and I are allowing our finances to recover since we just finished our theater YESTERDAY after 26 months of trials, tribulations and expeditures. What a relief to have that huge task completed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I think Bi-wiring is one of those things best done after your main components are set-up and you are so bored that you just have to try. I am in the camp that the bass is more open by bi-wiring. This may just be my perception, but my perception is also my reality I used to participate in one web site for home theater and remember a debate so intense that someone was arguing that a straighened length of coat hanger was just as good as any brand name wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I am not one who thinks that wire is just wire, BUT: I think that high quality INTERCONNECTS are more important and provide more bang-for-the-buck performance than high quality speaker CABLES do to the overall system sound. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 12:16:17 PM D-MAN wrote: I am not one who thinks that wire is just wire, BUT: I think that high quality INTERCONNECTS are more important and provide more bang-for-the-buck performance than high quality speaker CABLES do to the overall system sound. DM ---------------- interesting you should bring that up. i was referred to these cables on another forum as being THE cable to use for optical interconnects. http://stores.ebay.com/24-7-MINIDISCS_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm anyone used these cables, or have any thoughts on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 10:51:32 AM picky wrote: drick: Yeah, I like scriven's approach to the issue as well; I was addicted to 14-gauge lamp cord for years!! LOL (Seriously!) I've not tried bi-amping yet, mainly because I do not have the equipment, but I have heard from others on this forum that there is an improvement (smoothing) in the lower-end transistion over to the RSW subwoofer when bi-amping. Perhaps, I will become more adventuresome in the future. As for right now, the wife and I are allowing our finances to recover since we just finished our theater YESTERDAY after 26 months of trials, tribulations and expeditures. What a relief to have that huge task completed! ---------------- ---------------- On 10/12/2004 11:42:00 AM PhilMays wrote: I think Bi-wiring is one of those things best done after your main components are set-up and you are so bored that you just have to try. I am in the camp that the bass is more open by bi-wiring. This may just be my perception, but my perception is also my reality I used to participate in one web site for home theater and remember a debate so intense that someone was arguing that a straighened length of coat hanger was just as good as any brand name wire. ---------------- Picky / Phil, consolidating posts here.. So if i undestand correctly, i am already bi wiring / bi amping (i assume bi amping is the same thing?) by utilizing the magic cables (http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=33) my guy sold me right? he also has some interesting connectors (i think these are them http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1272) on the end that are supposed to be the best way to connect all of my speaker wires (http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=81)? any thoughts on those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 For cool jumper cables, check out the clearance sale at www.audioadvisor.com on AudioQuest - for not much more than you'd pay for run of the mill stuff since it's on clearance. Also, for fun/cool wires check out IXOS at www.accessories4less.com . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriven Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 9:46:44 PM drick wrote: ... So if i undestand correctly, i am already bi wiring / bi amping (i assume bi amping is the same thing?) by utilizing the magic cables ---------------- Drick, No, that is not correct. Bi-wiring is running two sets of speaker cables from the amp to the speaker. One set is connected to the woofer the other set is connected to the high frequency driver(s). (Note: Both come from the same source.) While doubling up the connection will lower the resistance in the speaker circuit somewhat, going with a heaver gage wire will get you to the same place. (Read that, I doubt you will be able to hear any difference unless your speaker cables are way to small to begin with!) Bi-amping is a whole different ball game. A bi-amped system uses different power amps to drive the woofer and high frequency sections of the speaker. Obviously, this is a lot more complicated that just running another set of speaker wires. You need to add a crossover between the preamp and the two power amps for each channel to split the signal that will go to the woofer vs. high frequency driver(s). The idea behind this is that the low frequencies require most of the power and using one amp to produce the power required for the woofer and a separate amp for the quick transients required in the high frequency will improve the sound. (Quite often a SS amp is used for the lows and a tube amp for the HF.) I think your "sales guy" suggested you should bi-wire because he gets a good commission on the "magic cables" and therefore you should definitely buy twice as many of them. My response to him would be two words and they would not be "lets dance!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Drick, No, that is not correct. Bi-wiring is running two sets of speaker cables from the amp to the speaker. One set is connected to the woofer the other set is connected to the high frequency driver(s). (Note: Both come from the same source.) While doubling up the connection will lower the resistance in the speaker circuit somewhat, going with a heaver gage wire will get you to the same place. (Read that, I doubt you will be able to hear any difference unless your speaker cables are way to small to begin with!) Bi-amping is a whole different ball game. A bi-amped system uses different power amps to drive the woofer and high frequency sections of the speaker. Obviously, this is a lot more complicated that just running another set of speaker wires. You need to add a crossover between the preamp and the two power amps for each channel to split the signal that will go to the woofer vs. high frequency driver(s). The idea behind this is that the low frequencies require most of the power and using one amp to produce the power required for the woofer and a separate amp for the quick transients required in the high frequency will improve the sound. (Quite often a SS amp is used for the lows and a tube amp for the HF.) I think your "sales guy" suggested you should bi-wire because he gets a good commission on the "magic cables" and therefore you should definitely buy twice as many of them. My response to him would be two words and they would not be "lets dance!" ---------------- ahh, i see. so i will be bi wiring up front, not bi amping (not going to be doing THAT for a while, that's for sure). Actually, the price delta for the original THX rated cables i had, and the new magic bi wire cables is neglible after "negotiations". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Most of the idea behind bi-wiring is that most of the current goes to the woofer, and so using a separate cable to the highs ensures quite a lot less current is going through that wire affecting the higher frequencies. Does it work? I don't know... I've never heard a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/13/2004 10:56:05 AM psg wrote: Most of the idea behind bi-wiring is that most of the current goes to the woofer, and so using a separate cable to the highs ensures quite a lot less current is going through that wire affecting the higher frequencies. Does it work? I don't know... I've never heard a difference. ---------------- i am only going to do this for the fronts and the center channel, so we'll see how it goes. the theory from the sales rep was that it will drive both sets of speakers, instead of splitting the signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drick Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/11/2004 11:32:15 AM drick wrote: Hi, I need some assistance on speaker wire connections for my speakers (RF-7's, RC-7, RB-75's, RS-7's, and RSW-15). I had selected the Monster Cable THX 1000 series for all of speakers, but the sales guy said that i should change to "bi wire" for the fronts and center? Looking for some input on this. I pulled down all of the owners manuals for my speakers, and they aren't very helpful. Here is what i had originally (AV receiver, DirecTV Satellite receiver, TV, PS2, DVD): Monster THX 1000 Component - ULT V1000 CV-16 x2 Monster THX 1000 Optical - ULT I1000FO-8 x3 Monster THX 1000 Speaker - ULT S1000MT-10/10 x3 Monster THX 1000 Speaker - ULT S1000MT-20/20 x4 Monster THX 1000 Sub - ULT SUB1000-25 x1 ---------------- Based on all your feedback, i've modified as follows (am i missing anything?): Fronts / Monster Z2 Biwire Audiophile Speaker Cable - Z2B ML-10/10 x1 (pair) Center / Monster Z2 Biwire Center Channel - Audiophile Speaker Cable - Z2B ML-C10 x1 Sub / Monster ZBass100 Audiophile powered Subwoofer Interconnect - ZB100 SW-18 x1 Rear & surrounds / Monster SuperFlat Navajo White Easy-to-Hide Speaker Cable - SFL-500 x100 (ft) DVD / DTV - Monster 400 for HDMI : HDMI to DVI Video Cable - HDMI400/DVI-6M x2 Receiver to TV - Monster DVI400 Super-High Performance DVI-D Video Cable for HDTV - DVI400-5M DVD / PS2 / DTV - Monster Ultra Series THX® 1000 Fiber Optic Digital Interconnect - ULT I1000FO-8 x3 * Misc connectors / widgets for the bi wire & remote cable for rears / surrounds- Monster QuickLock Gold Banana Connectors For Easy Self Crimping Terminations - QL GMT-H x4 Monster Lock Angled Spades Modular Speaker Cable Termination - QL GAS-H x3 Monster Lock Monster Bananas Modular Speaker Cable Termination - ML MT-H x2 * I'm going to also get 3 pair of the 1m cables recommended on the other site and see iof i like them or the monster cables better (http://stores.ebay.com/24-7-MINIDISCS_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Try a set of MIT biwre cables, youll here a difference, or you can get your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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