ken kaz Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 i have a question. i am using Klipsch Chorus IIs driven by a Carver 1.5 amp. When i listen to clean vocal recording (soft rock, acoustic type music) and the singer sings a word with a "s" sound periodically the sound is very nasty. The set up has always been that way (bought the speakers 10 years ago)...but i was recently reading a post saying that this type of problem was common with old carver amps.......and i should get a new amp rather than deal with that. It is (obviously) not a huge deal, it only happens at very loud volumes with very clean acoustic music. I have also heard this is normal for horn loaded speakers. any advise on this? is it normal for the speaker or do i upgrade the amp? thanks kaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 it's called "sibilance", btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken kaz Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 thanks. now i know what to call it. now i want it to go away. anything i can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 This is any or a combination of several things. Essentially, something is modulating the high frequencies where the sibilances reside. Some sources: The amplifier via intermodulation distortion (essentially the sibilance noise is modulating itself). Try a ss class A or medium to low power tube model (high power tube amps, might do the same thing). RF, usually via the power line (try a power line filter). Caps in the speaker crossover. Is your crossover stock? What kind is it? Someone on this site has the same thing and can tell you if that's a problem. I find PIOs have the least tendency for the problem. Conditioned Hovland "Musicaps" can be very good, but will certaily not let your sources get away with anything. Less than good phono signal chain or optic disk electronics. Endless tweaks and mods to all of the above. Basically, horn speakers do it because the signals they receive tell them to. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 5:22:59 PM ken kaz wrote: anything i can do? ---------------- room treatment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there. I bought an SACD copy of Billy Joel's "Innocent Man" the other day. Despite the great songs, the original vinyl recording was bright with a lot of siblance. The SACD has the exact same sound as the disc. To say I was dissapointed is an understatement. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 One important point is whether you have the problem in all modes or just phono, if you have one, CD, Tuner. If you have a Phono and that is the only point, your cartridge is most likely mis-tracking. If you do not have a Phono and it is happening only at higher volumes, your tweeter may be at fault. One can have a tweeter in need of repair for quite some time without noticing it. Try borrowing a different set of Speakers. Also, you did not note the power of your amplifier. It may be clipping. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 5:56:57 PM 3dzapper wrote: Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there. I bought an SACD copy of Billy Joel's "Innocent Man" the other day. Despite the great songs, the original vinyl recording was bright with a lot of siblance. The SACD has the exact same sound as the disc. To say I was dissapointed is an understatement. Rick ---------------- Rick, I too have The Innocent man on vinyl, sound is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 "Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there." I hear this at its worst on Foreigners "Cold as Ice". You're as cold a icesssssssssssss Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Ken, I thought about it a little more on the way home from work. Probably not the crossover. Probably the amp .. possibly aggravated by power line noise. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Guys, Sibelance is usually on the recording itself. The way to tell is to listen with a good quality pair of headphones directly from the CD player if you can. If you hear it there, it's real. Some artists have a bad case of it. Sean Connery, Wynonia Rider and Serah Briteman (pardon me if I spelled those names wrong), to name several, all have a bad case of it! Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Daniels Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 7:57:32 PM rf3iicrazy wrote: "Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there." I hear this at its worst on Foreigners "Cold as Ice". You're as cold a icesssssssssssss Tom ---------------- 33 1/3 or compact disc? I have the LP, and that song is very shrill. The later Foreigner LP's were recorded better, especially "4", which has "Urgent" on it. -JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I had an m1.5t and it was almost unlistenable with my LaScala's. I found a much better match with the TFM35x. I used the same pre for both amps and both amps were been rebuilt and had 100+ hours on them after the rebuild. The 1.5's powered a pair of Logans and a pair of Polks with great results, but when attached to the Klipsch, it wasn't such a nice combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 9:24:17 PM Jack Daniels wrote: ---------------- On 11/15/2004 7:57:32 PM rf3iicrazy wrote: "Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there." I hear this at its worst on Foreigners "Cold as Ice". You're as cold a icesssssssssssss Tom ---------------- 33 1/3 or compact disc? I have the LP, and that song is very shrill. The later Foreigner LP's were recorded better, especially "4", which has "Urgent" on it. -JD ---------------- Lou Gramm(atico) is from Rochester. Worked with him many times when he was in "Black Sheep" At times he would throw extra emphasis on words, s's etc.. Felt it added drama to the song. How much came through on cold as ice depended on whether you had a first or second generation copy. But extra emphasis can be a result of those areas I noted, especially problem tweeters. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Diana Krall, Lets Face The Music And Dance has that problem. Also, some of Eva Cassidy's recordings. I think they're mic'd too close. Updating the crossovers in my khorns made a significant improvement and smoothed out the midrange compared to my corns and heresys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 9:24:17 PM Jack Daniels wrote: ---------------- On 11/15/2004 7:57:32 PM rf3iicrazy wrote: "Sometimes it is just in the recording. Whether due to close miking, the recording studio or the producer, it's there." I hear this at its worst on Foreigners "Cold as Ice". You're as cold a icesssssssssssss Tom ---------------- 33 1/3 or compact disc? I have the LP, and that song is very shrill. The later Foreigner LP's were recorded better, especially "4", which has "Urgent" on it. -JD ---------------- I have it on LP. I still bare through it as I really like every song on that LP, it brings back alot of old memories. Tom Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 So Gary, does that mean you will consider updating the crossovers in your zebras? "Let's Face the Music and Dance" is a good test for this sibilance phenomenon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Like Al mentioned, make sure that it's not the source material before you start modifying your equipment. Do you hear the sibilance with all your music or just this one particular album? Also, does your room sound pingy when you clap your hands? If you combine a very live room with a recording with a little extra sibilance, then you've got yourself a prime situation for some nasty shrill sound. hough the speaker amp combo is an important one, just keep in mind that changing out different components is just an expensive way of EQ'ing the sound. If your equipment has any EQ controls anywhere, try reducing the high end a little bit. If not, then it might not be a bad investment to get a basic EQ to help tame bad recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 ---------------- On 11/15/2004 10:57:14 PM boomac wrote: So Gary, does that mean you will consider updating the crossovers in your zebras? ---------------- I thought about it.....briefly then decided to wait a while since they still sound so good. I have other priorities for my audio funds right now and I spend way more time with my khorns anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 On the Vinyl, an Ortofon OM 40 GOLD kept the shrillness down. With Vinyl, it can be getting a good match between Cartridge and Pre-Amp. Al makes an easier point - try listening with a GOOD set of headphones. If you don't hear then try the alternatives. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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