yromj Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Check out the link below for a great demonstration of exactly how amps clip and why that can be damaging to your speakers. It has really been very informative. John http://soundandvisionmag.com/idealbb/view.asp?mode=viewtopic&topicID=36214&num=20&pageNo=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Interesting, I never knew S&V had an online forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 awesome site, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 yromj , thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 could someone post what sub clipping sounds like? that must sound different than what was posted on that forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I think he is not quite correct. Didn't we have extensive discussion of the issue two or three years ago? You really have to do a Fourier analysis. This is the math which converts a wave form in time (which he shows) to a frequency spectrum. He should have done that. If he had done so, I think it would show that there is not so much increase in tweeter range freq components to account for failure. It is true that a clipped sinusoid (a pure tone before clipping) does create new high frequency components. Typically this is explained that it starts looking like a square wave. A square wave does have odd numbered (I recall, not even) freq components. But in any case, they decrease in magnitude as you go up toward tweeter ranges. While not stated, there is an argument that the 200 Hz tone is closer to the tweeter range and is being driven into clipping. But I think the wave form shows it is preserved over more of the cycle(s), and thus does not have as many high frequency components. The bottom line is that clipping probably does not account for most failures. I think the better explanation is that tweeters are very fragile. E.g. a T-35 will burn out with 5 watts continuous. A midrange may take 40 and a woofer 100 watts. This not so bad a situation because classical music has most of the power in the mid. Pop has a lot more bass, and in some cases more tweeter level, but not too much. (You can see this by playing a CD on XP's media player and selecting the bar graph frequency display. There are no freq or level marks, but you can see frequency distribution. Like a real time analyzer. My conclusion is that if you're throwing a lot of power at the speaker, you're inevitably driving the fragile tweeter to its limits even without clipping. Putting it into clipping in the bass or midrange may just increase normal tweeter freq components to the burn out point without considering waveform distortion. - - - You have to be a bit careful about your consideration of the "system" and what goes wrong where. The amp (and indeed entire storage transmission system) has a limited dynamic range). You can clip anywhere there. The speaker, and its internal drivers has limits too. For example, you could have a low power amp driven to clipping and the robust speaker not. You will hear amp distortion without speaker distortion. OTOH, you could have a robust amp driving the speaker components beyond their limits, and clipping against their mechanical limits. There may be similar distortion. Probably in most cases the response gets inaccurate before hard clipping occurs. I.e. before the wave form flattens. When a woofer distorts, the voice coil former or diaphragm hits the magnet and you get a clank. In my view, some of this sort of analysis of conditions is lunacy. This is because the amp and/or speaker are being thrashed to within inches of their limits and failure points. When that is done, it becomes difficult to ascribe fault to any component except the guy with a heavy hand on the volume control. Smile. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 ---------------- On 11/19/2004 10:51:44 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: I think he is not quite correct...... ---------------- COF (crazy old fart) loves to be the "resident expert" on the sound and vision forum...... even when he is wrong ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 i am with william f. this sounds more like an explanation for someone who lost a bet over the large vs small issue. i think the equipment tested was limited , poor quality (sony? bose?)if it had that much trouble carrying the signals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 MHO, the was a lot of useful information is COF's post but as Gil pointed out he managed to leave points out and not establish some of the other possibilities. as usual, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially for those trying to learn. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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