MBM135 Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 That is what I find myself saying throughout about 50% of the movies I watch. Center channel seems weak while action rattles the entire house. Constantly fiddling with the volume during dialogue and then mashing the down arrow when the action picks up. Here is my set up: H/K AVR-110 (adequate for my small room) Synergy SB-2s SC-1 (Center) Quintet rears Velodyne sub Sony 32inch Trinitron I know the SC-1 is working propery and amp set-up is good--I even boosted the output of the center by several dB's just for good measure. I notice that on some movies it sounds great--again, about 50/50. Is the Reference series (say RB-35) that significant of an upgrade. I'm not an HT junkie, just an occasional movie watcher--but darn, it is irritating to wonder "what did he/she say" during a movie. Oh, and yes, my hearing is exceptional. Any ideas on how to improve my center? Thanks! Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Do you have a sound meter, such as the one available from Radio Shack? If so have you calibrated your system with it? Since you've boosted the output of the center, has it helped at all? Some movies are simply not recorded as well others, IMHO, w/ respect to dialog balance. For example, the LOTR series is done exceptionally well in this regard. No matter how loud the action gets, the dialog is always loud and clear. However, Godsend was atrocious. I had the volume turned up to unprecedented levels that would shake the house normally. I was praying that nothing "loud" would happen quickly I currently use an RB/C/S-25 system, which replaced my Quintet system. The Quintet center wasn't nearly as good as my RB-25, however, w/ the system calibrated, I never had issues hearing the dialog either. The last suggestion I can think of is make sure your center is set to "small" in the receiver's menu so that it's not sounding "muffled" by trying to produce low frequencies that it's not very good at doing. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 In my experience the quality of processors in receivers vary widely in their ability to deliver clear dialog. The newest ones seem to do best because the incorporate various forms of dialog enhancement. While you may truely believe that your HK is adequite for your small room power wise, it may not be adequite to deliver the crisp clear dialog that you desire, purely becuse it is not state of the art. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 ---------------- On 11/26/2004 9:53:43 PM JewishAMerPrince wrote: In my experience the quality of processors in receivers vary widely in their ability to deliver clear dialog. The newest ones seem to do best because the incorporate various forms of dialog enhancement. While you may truely believe that your HK is adequite for your small room power wise, it may not be adequite to deliver the crisp clear dialog that you desire, purely becuse it is not state of the art. Jerry Rappaport ---------------- read: get NAD jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Before discounting your AVR, just make sure your Center channel speaker is positioned correctly. It MUST point towards the main listening area at approximately ear level. Center channels speakers usually are very good in dispersing sound horizontally, but have a very narrow vertical dispersion angle. Therefore, if your center channel points above or below ear level at your main seating position, you most likely will keep playing that volume game no matter what receiver you have. On the other note, since I am not familiar with your center channel, I have no idea whether the speaker itself is adequate for your setup or not. Is it from the same Synergy series as your mains? Also, as others said get yourself a decent calibration disk like DVE or AVIA and set all your channels accordingly. This could be the cheapest yet the most effective way to boost the performance of your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Before you go blaming his system I think some blame needs to be passed on to those engineers who mix the DVD's. I too find many mixed poorly and the center dialogue weak. I have two centers no flaws to speak of in my system yet there are DVD's where we are asking the very same question "what did he say?" I have to crank it up to hear it then get blown away with the action scenes. I sometimes boost the center channel level a couple of db to improve the dialogue intelligibility. Some DVD's are better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Hi, i'm not familiar with your HK, but is there a way to dial down the volume of the mains, in conjuction with upping the center? Phase correct? Center speaker wire guage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 not sure what movies you are watching...... but i own over 300 DVD's and have rented at least that many and i have never had a problem with dialogue being heard..... i do think that there might be very well be processor issues...... check out my profile for my equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchild311 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Another thing that will help and is just common sense: Crank your center channel db up. Keep those fronts turned down in a ratio of about 2:1 or whatever seems to fit your ear. It sounds like you may be having this problem when you are watching movies late at night and don't want the sound up too high. But, movies are made to be played loud. Thats the way the audio engineers mix them. So when an explosion happens its really like an explosion in relevance to the dialogue. Most action/music is going to take place out of your fronts, sub, and rears. Your dialogue and other subtleties from the center comes from the center. So crank that center guy up and then hold on for the action sequences. As always just experiment and attune it to your personal tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 ---------------- On 11/27/2004 8:12:38 AM ironwoods wrote: Center speaker wire guage? ---------------- He told me he uses daisy chained leads, the ones that connect the cartrage to the tone arm on a turntable - the run is about 50 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 ---------------- On 11/27/2004 1:08:38 PM kenratboy wrote: ---------------- On 11/27/2004 8:12:38 AM ironwoods wrote: Center speaker wire guage? ---------------- He told me he uses daisy chained leads, the ones that connect the cartrage to the tone arm on a turntable - the run is about 50 feet. ---------------- Well hell, there's the problem. Is it twisted, and up on those high voltage ceramic insulators too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camroy74 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Does your AVR have a dialog normalization setting? I have an Onkyo TX-DS787 and one of the features it has is the ability the adjust the dialog levels for what I am listening to. Right now I notice that mine is set to +4. This increases volume for the center channel and keeps the remaining speakers at their set levels. There are some movies that are mixed poorly. I have watched a few horror movies over the years that have low dialog and when I increase the sound to hear the characters speak, the big scare pops out through my fronts and I nearly end up with a heart attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 TauRus hit in on the head with "Center channels speakers usually are very good in dispersing sound horizontally, but have a very narrow vertical dispersion angle. Therefore, if your center channel points above or below ear level at your main seating position, you most likely will keep playing that volume game no matter what receiver you have." If your center is positioned below your TV, and NOT tilted up towards your ears, perhaps some of the sound is bouncing off the floor before it gets to you. These early reverberations can considerably blur the sound. Try the laser test. tape a small laser pointer to top of your center cabinet. Then shim cabinet until the laser points to seated ear height. If you have hard flooring, such as hardwoods or tile, place a rug in front of the center speaker to help eliminate any reflections. This might 'tighten' up your dialog. Or just buy the RC7 (grin) Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I experience the same problem in my setup. I have a denon 1803 with an SC-1 center. For the sake of argument, let's say that I have done everything correct. I still have a hard time understanding the dialogue. The only solution I've found is to listen in stereo mode instead of the surround formats. When listening to mono music over the SC-1, I've always felt that it lacks the sparkle that every other speaker (including bose) gets. It's almost as if all frequencies above 3kHz are completely gone (yes, I'm still getting output out of the tweeter and I've checked the binding posts). From my mixing experience, I have found speech intelligability to increase the most by boosting frequencies in the 8-12 kHz range. I'm thinking my best solution is to move the SC-1 to rear center duty and then purchase a better center channel speaker. Different amplification doesn't seem to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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