C'mon guys, how about some opinions

[richieb]

Is an all tube set-up superior to a combination of tube pre-amp and high quality SS power amp with Cornwalls. Is there a loss of harmonics and richness when SS is introduced in the system. Currently using a fully modded Cayin tube integrated.

[3dzapper]

Richie, Try putting a good tube pre-amp in front of your Cayan first. I put a Bottlehead Foreplay in front of my Jolida 302B and it made a world of difference in sound quality with the Heresys.

I tried my Blueberry, an excellent preamp, in front of my Nikko SS power amp and found it lacking Vs the Wrights or 300B SET amp and Khorns. YMMV

Rick

[garymd]

Only once while waiting for my Blueberry pre did I try a SS pre with my tube amp and was less than thrilled with the results in comparison to all tubes. I was using my old Kenwood SS KR-9600 reciever (good vintage receiver BTW) for a pre and while it did sound pretty good, it paled in comparison to the Mac MX110, Marantz 7C and Blueberry, all of which I used in that configuration.

I guess it depends on the equipment you use but I'm in the all-tube camp. At one point I introduced a decent EQ into my all tube set-up and thought even that took away from the sweetness of the tube sound. YMMV however but that's MY take on it anyway.

[Piranha]

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On 12/28/2004 11:46:11 PM garymd wrote:

Only once while waiting for my Blueberry pre did I try a SS pre with my tube amp and was less than thrilled with the results in comparison to all tubes. I was using my old Kenwood SS KR-9600 reciever (good vintage receiver BTW) for a pre and while it did sound pretty good, it paled in comparison to the Mac MX110, Marantz 7C and Blueberry, all of which I used in that configuration.

I guess it depends on the equipment you use but I'm in the all-tube camp. At one point I introduced a decent EQ into my all tube set-up and thought even that took away from the sweetness of the tube sound. YMMV however but that's MY take on it anyway.----------------

Gary, all tube huh? Yikes!

[Deang]

"Is an all tube set-up superior to a combination of tube pre-amp and high quality SS power amp..."

It really depends on the quality of either setup. It kind of has to be apples to apples so to speak. A really excellent tube preamp driving a really excellent solid state amp could sound better than an all tube set up built upon a multitude of compromises to meet a price point.

I agree with Rick. Stay on the tube upgrade path and start by getting a nice tube preamp in front of your Cayin. As one Mobile Homeless used to say, "...a good preamp will flesh out the sound...". Probably as good a description I've ever heard for what a good preamp will do for the sound.

"Is there a loss of harmonics and richness when SS is introduced in the system."

No, not if you buy a good tube preamp. Still, an all tube setup done right will sound cleaner and more open.

[TBrennan]

One can't generalize; I've heard both tubes and SS sound good (and bad) with horns. All anyone here can tell you is what works for them and that may not work for you. This is all about preference and taste. Only you can decide and that means you'll have to do some listening.

One thing I think is true is that to get the full dynamics (if that's what you want) of your speakers, as efficient as they are, you need a high-powered amp and those are usually SS.

Be aware too that amplifier technology is in a profound state of change right now and that many experienced hornys are reporting very good results with inexpensive chip-amps such as gain-clones, Tri-Paths and cheap Japanese receivers using this technology. Myself, I just ordered a $30 Sonic Impact amp from Target tonight. The little bugger can sound VERY good if you don't need lots of power.

[Piranha]

Ya throwin that at your Heresy's Tom? Let us know how you like it. Hey I'd still love to try that gain clone. Does smilin still have it? Thanks

[mike stehr]

"Myself, I just ordered a $30 Sonic Impact amp from Target tonight. The little bugger can sound VERY good if you don't need lots of power."

The damn local Targets didn't even have a clue about the little SI amp.

I gotta snag one offline before they run out, or get "audiopile approved" and raised to some stupid inflated price.

[TBrennan]

Piranha---Yeah, I'm gonna try the little guy with my Hereseys.

I have the gain-clone back but I think I promised Guy Landau a shot at it. If he can get me a shot at hearing his buddy's Klangfilm horn rig I just might drive it to New York myself.

[Piranha]

This must be the one Tom bought--> Sonic Impact

[mike stehr]

http://www.si-5.com/info/homePage.html

[LonestarBlues]

Just my 2 cents/personal opinion of gear combo's I have used with my 2 pair of Cornwalls. Bought my first pair of 1977 Cornwalls from a guy in San Antonio in 2000. Drove to his house to audition and buy. Andy was using the Cornwalls with a EAR 859 integrated SET amp-13 watts x 2 & EAD transport & dac. This was my 1st exposure to listening to a tube amp & I was very impressed with the sound.

The 1st combo I used with the 1977 Cornwalls was solid state Mcintosh MC 7150 autoformer amp-150 watts x 2 & ss Mcintosh C 38 preamp. Good sound to my ears, Mcintosh ss & Klipsch Heritage match well together in my opinion. Bought a 2nd pair of 1983 Cornwalls from a guy living in Sugarland-Houston suburb. Ran 2 pair of Cornwalls with the Mac gear for a while. Solid state Mcintosh has a very smooth sound-good bass, smooth midrange & treble.

2nd combo-I picked up a pair of factory assembled Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 SET amps-3.5 watts x 2 in July 2002 from Audiogon. I ran the Moondogs with the Mcintosh

C 38 ss preamp with good sonic results to my ears. The Moondogs bettered the Mac amp with a more natural midrange & detailed highs. Picked up a factory assembled Welborne Labs Reveille 6SN7 tube preamp from Audiogon. The Moondogs & Reveille tube preamp produced better sonics to my ears. Solid musical bass, lush glorious midrange & smooth detailed high end. I now had the 1977 Cornwalls hooked up to the Welborne Labs gear & the Mac gear hooked up to

the 1983 Cornwalls.

3rd combo-Picked up a Llano Phoenix CAS 300/VA2 mosfet/tube hybrid power amp from Audiogon. 300 watts x 2, class A-2 gain stage amp that uses separate boxes

for the CAS 300 current section- mosfet output & VA2 tube voltage section-uses 6SN7, 6SL7 & 12SN7 tubes. Used the Llano Phoenix amp

with the Mcintosh C 38 preamp with good sonics to my ears. The Llano

Phoenix is the most dynamic amp I have owned. Stupendous deep bass, smooth midrange & extended smooth treble.

4th combo-Picked up a 2 year old Dehavilland Verve preamp from

Audiogon. Ted the original owner had oversized knobs machined at a machine shop. He had the knobs & faceplate gold plated at a plating shop. Beautiful looking & sounding preamp-very dynamic. I ran the Llano Phoenix with the Verve preamp. The Verve preamp improved the sonics in my opinion. Smoother

more natural sound than the Mac preamp.

5th combo-Bought 2 year old Dehavilland Aries 845 SET monoblock amps from Ted, the same guy that sold me the Verve preamp. Faceplates are also goldplated. The Aries are 25 watts x 2 according to my owners manual. The

info on the Dehavilland website states 22 watts x 2. Not sure which figure is correct. I really like the sonics of this combo. Good deep solid musical bass, lush glorious midrange and smooth extended highs. The 845 tubes & amps put out mucho heat.

Both the solid state gear & tube gear I have used has given me good sonics. I prefer the all tube combos for the smoother, lush natural midrange. The solid state I have used does sound good to my ears but I prefer the all tube combos. Audio is so subjective and

not everyone will like the same sonic flavor.

Regards, Mike

[dodger]

As Gary Said, an all tube system is the better way to go. As long as the tube Pre-Amp is of the same or better, quality of you Amplifers.

This is to say there are no good SS Pre, Tube Amp combinations. Over the past 37 years working in Sound and Audio, I have heard some.

But I prefer an all tube, or if you are beginning, A Tube Pre, with good SS Amps has produced better sound to me. That combination has been a little more consistent.

dodger

[edwinr]

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On 12/28/2004 11:31:49 PM richieb wrote:

Is an all tube set-up superior to a combination of tube pre-amp and high quality SS power amp with Cornwalls. Is there a loss of harmonics and richness when SS is introduced in the system. Currently using a fully modded Cayin tube integrated.

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That's a hard one. All things being equal, I guess my vote would be for the all tube setup. Usually the next best recommendation is tube pre with solid state power. However, I know this goes against the grain (it's like pouring coffee into your cream), I can't help feeling that a tube should be the last thing that kisses your signal goodbye before it heads out on that arduous journey to your loudspeaker crossover. So why not a solid state pre with a tube power?

[D-MAN]

This is a matter of preference, but I would recommend a good clean high-current SS power amp and a nice clean tube pre-amp.

The main benefit to having a high-current (and that usually means SS) amp is the dynamic range and the solidity of the bass which a big wattage power supply produces. It does this whether you are running below a watt or not.

The benefit of a good clean tube pre-amp is that you've got that wonderful soundstage that you can almost walk around in.

Put them together, and now you're talking some great listening with the all of the dynamic transients and excitement as if you were there.

DM

[Daddy Dee]

One SI user review on the Target page says it beats his $900 SE tube amp. Ouch.