TFA Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I am considering a pair of Klipschorns but my corners are 28 feet apart. I am concerned that there may be a "hole" in the centre of the soundstage because of the 28' spacing. Does anyone out there have any experience with a similar setup? Thanks in advance, Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Gene, welcome to the forum, i have mine on a 20 foot wall and i just read on here that someone has theirs on a 35 foot wall. the sound is incredible. buy some you will love them. the wider the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 ---------------- On 1/11/2005 3:28:29 PM TFA wrote: I am considering a pair of Klipschorns but my corners are 28 feet apart. I am concerned that there may be a "hole" in the centre of the soundstage because of the 28' spacing. Does anyone out there have any experience with a similar setup? Thanks in advance, Gene ---------------- The distance between the speakers isn't so much an issue as is how far back your listening position is. Because your speakers are in the corner, they radiate out at a 45 degree angle. The sweet spot then will be in the center and about 14 feet from the front wall. If you end up sitting in front of the 14 feet, then you will have a wider soundstage with a weak center (too far and it becomes a hole). If you sit behind the 14 feet, then you will have a narrow soundstage with a very strong center. If your situation is such that you can't move your listening position, then you may want to conisder the addition of a center speaker to your setup. It's called 3 channel stereo where you have a simple circuit that combines the L and R channels into a third center channel. (This is not to be confused with the center channel typical of 5.1 DVDs). If you're interested I can point you to another thread where this is discussed and perhaps you can find someone on the forum to build you the box for a small price. A properly integrated 3 channel stereo system not only gets rid of the hole, but makes the soundstage insanely deeper as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 A Bell Labs paper in 1935 suggested the wall be 25 to 30 feet. A smaller speaker can be used for the center channel as a fill in like Corwall, etc. Mine are 24 ft apart with a Cornwall center channel. JJK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Oddly enough, a sketch that I was given of PWK's room showed the K-Horns either not in corners or in false corners. A Belle was utilized for center channel. dodger EDIT: Welcome to the Forum. If you decide on a Center Channel and do need the mini-box, PM me. END EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiokid Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Welcome to the forum, and hopefully to the Klipschorn Klub! PWK suggested a bridged center speaker, and I can assure you that it makes a big improvement to the soundstage. You end up with a wall of sound... "wide stage stereo". Everyone who hears it has the same response... their jaw drops to the floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiokid Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Welcome to the forum, and hopefully to the Klipschorn Klub! PWK suggested a bridged center speaker, and I can assure you that it makes a big improvement to the soundstage. You end up with a wall of sound... "wide stage stereo". Everyone who hears it has the same response... their jaw drops to the floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFA Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Thanks for the information guys, I thought after I made the post that perhaps I should have given a little more info on the room. I have all the room I need to adjust the listening position forward or backward. The room is actually 28 feet square with 10 foot side walls and an 18 foot vaulted ceiling. A centre speaker presents a problem however since there is a woodstove smack in the middle of the wall I want to place the speakers on. The soundstage properties are very important to me, I am after excellent instrument localization with "space" around the instruments over the width and depth of the stage. With the centre speaker not really an option, my concern is that the Khorns won't be quite able to fill the 28' space. I will be driving the Khorns with a modified KR BSI 18 using 845's and analog source. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 TFA, given those room dimensions you should be fine if you sit anywhere from 12' to 16' back from the front wall...I think artto has a very similar room size, he uses a center fill (belle) but I suspect it would sound pretty darn good without the center fill. perhaps he will ring in on this topic. warm regards, tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 With only 18watts per channel, your speakers will be capable of volumes up to about 117dB. The summed output for the two speakers will then be about 120dB. Because you'll be about 4m away from the speakers, your volume will be down about 12dB (3dB/meter) which brings you to 108dB max volume. Take into account the room and your absolute max output will be about 110dB. I really doubt you'll be listening at these volumes, rather more like 90dB so you have a good 20dB of headroom which is a lot. With your vaulted cieling I'm sure they are going to sound fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaffstone Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Perhaps two small center channel speakers on either side of the woodstove. Fortes or Heresys come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 what the Dr said- 24' wall for mine, not much different than the 17' wall, still sound great, no empty spot, no room for center channel anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I think you should post this in "architectural" forum as well, you will get more feedback there IMHO. regards, tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcophile Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Although I drive La Scalas in lieu of K Horns, my room is 25 feet wide by 20 feet deep. I have no problem with the soundstage as I sit approximately 16 feet from the sound wall. (La Scalas positioned deep in each corner) On the other hand, you could always demote the woodstove to platform status! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 My room is 28' wide. I have no problems with soundstage being too wide although I do use a Belle center speaker. Contrary to popular belief, the center speaker not only provides more precise lateral "imaging", it also adds depth to the overall image, much more three-dimensional, when properly set up. How much this contributes anything (good or bad) is somewhat dependent on the recording and type of source (ie: analog LP vs. digital CD/SACD). And of course, if it bothers you on a particular recording or source you can always turn the center down or off completely (just another thing to adjust). You might want to check out my thread in the Architectural Forum area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/12/2005 12:36:28 PM DrWho wrote: With only 18watts per channel, your speakers will be capable of volumes up to about 117dB. The summed output for the two speakers will then be about 120dB. Because you'll be about 4m away from the speakers, your volume will be down about 12dB (3dB/meter) which brings you to 108dB max volume. Take into account the room and your absolute max output will be about 110dB. I really doubt you'll be listening at these volumes, rather more like 90dB so you have a good 20dB of headroom which is a lot. With your vaulted cieling I'm sure they are going to sound fantastic. ---------------- Mike, this is not quite true (sorry). The drop-off in sound pressure level is dependent on several factors. In an anechoic or outdoor situation the sound pressure decreases inversely proportional to the square of the distance, so if the speaker output is 120dB at 3', then it will drop 3dB as the distance doubles, -3dB at 6', another -3dB at 12' and so on. In a reverberant sound field this changes. There is typically little drop in sound pressure beyond 12'. At this point room reflections (reverberation) and resonances (modes) tend to take over and contribute to the sound pressure level, especially in domestic situations where the room size is relatively small compared to the wavelengths being produced. And it is also dependent on the speaker type/configuration. For instance, there are short-throw, medium-throw and long-throw horns. Also, a line source for instance, does not fall off as fast, being far less than other conventional designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/18/2005 12:11:17 PM artto wrote: Mike, this is not quite true (sorry). The drop-off in sound pressure level is dependent on several factors. In an anechoic or outdoor situation the sound pressure decreases inversely proportional to the square of the distance, so if the speaker output is 120dB at 3', then it will drop 3dB as the distance doubles, -3dB at 6', another -3dB at 12' and so on. In a reverberant sound field this changes. There is typically little drop in sound pressure beyond 12'. At this point room reflections (reverberation) and resonances (modes) tend to take over and contribute to the sound pressure level, especially in domestic situations where the room size is relatively small compared to the wavelengths being produced. And it is also dependent on the speaker type/configuration. For instance, there are short-throw, medium-throw and long-throw horns. Also, a line source for instance, does not fall off as fast, being far less than other conventional designs. ---------------- Ya ya ya...I know all that but didn't want to get into all the minor details, lol However, I have always been told that it's -3dB per meter??? Doubling of distance has always made more sense to me, but for some reason that number is in me head...maybed it's -3dB only for the first meter? Despite all the numbers, I'm sure his room will go into "acoustic overload" well before 100dB anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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