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Is the soundstage with klispch horns poor?


fire pinch

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Hum... for the bass i dont need the Lengend series i think because i got the bess bang for the buck sub! I brang my sub to the Klipsch store and it blew away all SW lines! This sub is so much spectacular... but it produces a more "boomy like" sound and the sound which come out from it is very deep. I find that my sub doesnt match well with my Paradigm Monitor3. So it's why i need POWERFULL and dynamic loudspeakers like Klipsch Refernce RF-3 which produce a very TIGHT bass. It's what i want. I dont need Legend speakers because i have a very strong sub... and i dont want to pay more than 700-800$ for future mains.

This message has been edited by fire pinch on 08-19-2001 at 06:29 PM

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More i think, more i want to choose Paradigm Monitor9... I find that Paradigm speakers sound much better and have better highs. I really like my Monitor3 (they are bookshelf-speakers). But like i told in my last post, i want a more dynamic sound. Monitor9 are floorstanding i didnt listen to them yet. But i think they can slam better than what i have presently. Maybe i will buy the Paradigm Monitor9 so i will keep my monitor3 as rear speakers... they both have 8 inchs drivers.

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hey fire which sub is that? Are you looking for mains with slam or a combo with your sub for slam? Hell with that fantastic sub you only need bose cubes for slam Smile.gif

Really though if you're talking slam from mains as in chest thumping with say a kick drum, then there is no other speaker under $1K/pair that will touch the KLF-30. they msrp'd at $1800. wait another few months & you may find them for $800. and they have a great soundstage too Wink.gif have you ever heard legends?

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go forth & hump the world

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monitor 9's?Eek.gif I auditioned m9's before purchasing my rf-3's. you just can't go wrong with th rf-3's. as far as the imaging, soundstaging, dynamics,etc...they have it all. i have mine hooked to a denon 4800 rec'r. i listened to my girlfriends keith sweat cd in stereo mode. if anyone is familiar with the 4800, i had it on 00 volume(reference level). i just can't believe how awesome and tight the speaks sound. as far as soundstage...awesome. imaging so good, the snare drum along with other instruments and vocals, sound like it's coming from the center speaker. my speaks are spread 10' apart and are slightly toed in. listening position is also 10', forming an equilateral triangle if connecting speaks to head. my pic is in the "odds and mods" section so you could get a better idea. i just couldn't see myself sitting in front of monitor 9's when for the same price i could, and now own a pair of rf-3's. i will upgrade to the 5's in due time.

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fire pinch

I bought a set of RF-3's a few months ago and I'm very pleased with them. Sounstaging and imaging are the most important things to me when I listen to music and that's one of the reasons I bought them. That is one of the attributes that give recorded music the almost live experience. You want speakers and other components that reproduce that ambient and spatial sound that you hear when listening in a live situation.

You will find though that it also depends on your music source. Some albums.cds and tapes have very little soundstaging or none at all. It depends on how the sound engineer mixed them in the studio.

I have found that jazz has incredible soundstaging with a sense of 'space' between the instruments and proper stage placement.

I have my speakers set up almost identical to samuelr's and the imaging is excellent on most music sources. The RF's are very detailed in sound and sometimes you can almost hear the air transferring between the drumheads when a snare drum or tom is struck. The highs are very crisp and natural sounding. You can hear a guitar players fingers moving across the fret board at times. Vocals are almost scary and the vocalist seems to be in the same room as you are.On certain effects you will find yourself looking around your room as though someone else may be in there with you.

The performance of the RF's also depends on the reciever or amp. They don't seem to match up very well with lower end Yamahas(which I learned the hard way). But then that is a characteristic of many components. It's only normal. I will soon be buying a Denon DRA685 reciever because that is supposed to be a great match for the RF's. I understand they have a warm sound and help to produce a fine soundstage.

Here's a funny thing that happened a few weeks ago. Some friends stopped in and of course I had to show off my RF's. After listening a while,the one said"They sound good but they're too bright.' I walked over to my drumkit and crashed a few cymbals and asked him "Do

still think they sound too bright?" His jaw dropped in amazement as he realized how accurate the RF's produce the highs. He then said "no way,I didn't realize cymbals were that high pitched." He was just used to listening to dark sounding speakers.

Anyway,don't be afraid to buy them. They are a huge bang for the buck and I'm sure you will be pleased. They are simply outstanding in their price range.

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Funny how we think we know what cymbals sound like, but then many of us judge our musical tastes on the HT set-ups in the movie theater,

few of us get to listen to live or acoustic music; most speakers don't make anything that actually sounds like a cymbal, only a signal that lets us know that it is a cymbal -

our ears tell us that it is a cymbal, but it is hardly what real cymbals sound like,

striking the real thing in our living room creates more of a dynamic range with greater power, wider frequency range and more complex harmonics than any stereo system I have ever heard can reproduce...even Klispch does not come close;

they just come closer for a lot less money than any other combination I have ever heard.

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Cornwalls, Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours, Dynaco II, Rotel, KSW200 & LF10

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Colin

Yep, I wasn't inferring that the speakers perfectly reproduce the sound of cymbals. I merely demonstrated the natural brigthness of a good quality cymbal and how the RF-s's bring out that attribute. Cymbals need to be bright sounding and near the top of the frequency spectrum to penetrate through todays ampification systems when playing in a live situation.

You're right that they(speakers) will sound bright to someone who has hasn't alot of experience listening to live music or like my example of listening to dark sounding or inferior stereo systems and speakers.

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quote:

Originally posted by Olaf:

fire pinch

Here's a funny thing that happened a few weeks ago. Some friends stopped in and of course I had to show off my RF's. After listening a while,the one said"They sound good but they're too bright.' I walked over to my drumkit and crashed a few cymbals and asked him "Do

still think they sound too bright?" His jaw dropped in amazement as he realized how accurate the RF's produce the highs. He then said "no way,I didn't realize cymbals were that high pitched." He was just used to listening to dark sounding speakers.

Anyway,don't be afraid to buy them. They are a huge bang for the buck and I'm sure you will be pleased. They are simply outstanding in their price range.

I'm glad you mentioned cymbals. I frequently get a chance listen to live music. You are right, cymbals are bright in that the highs are strong and are rich in harmonics. They are also very dynamic. That's where klipsch really has it right especially in the heritage line. I often tell some my audiophile snob buddies to listen to live music and tell me if they know any speaker that reproduces it any better than the Khorn.

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discorules

Yup, when I adjust my treble and bass or EQ,I always use the drums and cymbals as a reference. A drumkit pretty well covers the whole frequency spectrum. From the lows of the kick drum(not as low as a bass guitar or pedals on an organ) to the the ride or crash of the cymbals. The toms and snare are in between. If someone is familiar with actual drum and cymbal tones then they can get a very accurate tonal adjustment on the amp settings.

Works for me!!!....:-)

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Well,

Everyone has there own choice on audio, if They make a choice to change, from Klipsch to something else, thats there own choice, i would give the cornwall, fortes, or chorus a listen, before i made such choice!!

For 2 channel, the heresys would have not much bottom end, youd need a sub, for sure!!

I do know one thing, at a certain volume with these cornwalls, my wife picks up the kids and leaves!!

Yes, ive had my ears ring, tickling buzzing, oh yea!

But at that point in time, ive learned the limitations of volume!!

My house is way to small for 2 pair of cornwalls, and i know it, but so what there still here!!

If the neihborhood wants to party, ill just open the doors, and have at it LOL!!

I would advise, that if you did change from Klipsch, id keep my Klipsch, you might be sorry, and have to buy them all over again!!

Regards Jim

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  • 8 months later...

I am terrible understanding terms so I'll go to plain speak for my two cents.....

Horns in the Klipsch I have owned and have heard (comparing to MLs, etc.) are very good at moving quickly with different sounds - this means there is no effort from the listener in identification of an instument's impact during heavy orchestration. This is simply not as good on all non-horn systems I have auditioned. All others make me 'think' before I can be that discerning. If this is soundstage - then these babies are darn good.

Now, what I have noticed is that with the other speakers, if you close your eyes and position yourself at various places in a room it is definitely harder to discern where the speakers are placed. On horns, especially as you move forward toward the middle of where the speakers are, you will start to hear each speaker independently. If that is imaging, then the other high end speakers win on the 'ease' of placement selection. HOWEVER, the horns positioning can have a dramatic advantage in directing sound that best fits the acoustics of the room. That is exactly how I have fixed my HT and Music - It would not have been possible without that discrete directionalizing (great word, huh?)

That's as much as this slower learner can impart today...

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Hwatkins

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I can't imagine why anyone would think that there is poor soundstage / imaging with a horn. The room acoustics have a lot to do with it. Experiment with room speaker placement as well as the furniture / wall hangings to optimize the sound. I must blame the infernal preaching of dr. armand bose about his direct / reflecting speakers for brainwashing too many consumers. I realize that we all try and get the most lifelike reproduction possible. You have to remember though, you are listening to prerecorded music or movies. I often go to the Thunder Bay Community auditorium to listen to artists, whether it be chantel kreviasiuk, amanda marshall or collective soul. What I strive to do is reproduce the music as it was intended. A piano should sound like a piano, a snare drum should sound like a snare drum. DO YOU listen to a live performance through stuffy, british mini monitors with no bass and limited output capability ? I sure don't! NO! the amplified sound you are hearing is through HORN LOADED speakers. Not a 4" midrange and a 1" silk dome tweeter with a maximum output of 104 db with your high end 100w/ch tube amp cranked to the max. How many people would go to a performance if they couldn't hear the music over the ventilation system, people coughing etc ? Probably not many. I own RF3II's and would not trade them for the anything else. Nuf said!

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FP,

"I plan to buy a Klipsch Reference RF-3 and i want an outstanding soundstage."

Ok the R series can throw a big soundstage when matched with quality amps.But outstanding? No,if you want outstanding soundstage prepare to spend BIG and then some.Dont ask for the Moon if you can cant reach for it.

Klipsch is above all else about huge life like dynamics and realism.As an owner of a good few Klipsch speakers I can tell you will be impressed by Klipsch hallmark dynamics.Klipsch also have a good soundstaging,if you sit in the sweetspot.

My RF-7's image well and they sure throw a big soundstage,but I positioned the speakers and listening chair to the last inch.Listen to the sound the speakers produce,not some clown reviewers who claim Klipsch have no soundstage.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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I bought my Cornwalls in the eraly eighties and auditioned them against some of the finest speakers in the world and several had won awards for sound and design. The end result was that each time the Klipsch speakers were turned on the room filled with dynamic music. I thought the sound stage and imaging was incredible. DOn't get caught up in all this. Buy what sounds best to your ears. As a side not I went to a high end sho yesterday to listen to the new Pioneer 47a and still like my Cornwalls better then the Magneplans and Meridian speakers I heard. With the new SACD and DVD audio disc Klipsch speakers should really excell do to their revealing nature and the tube sound from these new formats. Good luck

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I get great imaging with my Klipsch Speakers. Better imaging or soundstaging occurs when one considers their room, speaker placement, good source material & worthy components throught the entire musical chain. With the aforementions things accomplished, horns will reveal the breathe and depth of the music.

Remember! Garbage In...Garbage Out!

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

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I just had list member Gil McDermott over this weekend. My Khorns have only been in place for a week, and I've been so overwhelmed with the mind-boggling realism of the music imaging really hadn't crossed my mind. As usual, having another audiophile drop by provides objective imput. Gil has Fortes in his office...I'm not sure what at home, but I presume it is not Khorns. His first comment was that he expected more of a soundstage. After listening a few moments, I could see his point, and rather than my opinion, may I offer PWK's? No one seems to have done so in this thread so far. This is a summary of point 7 from the 8 Cardinal Rules as used in advertising material:

7. Accurate Spatial Values

To localize reproduced sound sources in their original spatial relationship requires three widely spaced speakers, regardless of size or type.

Doesn't sound like he left much wiggle room there. PWK either knew what he was talking about or he didn't. I think he did. I intend to place at least a Heresy in the center at some point, La Scala or Belle if the Ebay gods smile.

Dave

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David A. Mallett

Average system component age: 30 years.

Performance: 21rst Century

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