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Does anyone else find the Henry Rollins picture embarassing?


Randy Bey

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This is not the image I want to see when I bring up my beloved speakers home page.

But then, most of what Klipsch has done recently is not to my liking either. Home Theatre, indeed! (sniff!)

I guess it keeps the beans on the table but the implication (unpleasant) is that the old Khorn line wouldn't keep them solvent.

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Henry Rollins once said that he only enjoys the company of other celebrities, and that he can't stand conversation with those who aren't famous.

I set the forums page as the link in my Favorites tab....

The industry emphasis of home theather indeed is a sad development. The only shop where I can audition Klipsch speakers (Stereo West in Omaha, Nebraska -- the other shop doesn't stock too many) only has one two-channel amp available for auditions (some Yamaha clunker), and they even carry Marantz gear! When I went to audition the RF-7's, they were tucked in a corner facing the side of a huge television. Before I could audition either the RF-5's or the RF-7's, they had to "reprogram" the home theater rig to avoid using all the DSP nonsense on the receiver, the sub, the other speakers, etc.; after turning all that crap off, the remaining hiss was not just audible (even on the Marantz gear).... Not to mention the fact that the remote controls that are in style nowadays have more buttons than any car or computer keyboard.

Two-channel gear is being shoved into an esoteric, generally unavailable, EXPENSIVE corner of the market. Grrrrrrr.....

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May the bridges we burn light our way....

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stop bitching.

home theater is here to stay, not because of companies like Klipsch dedicating themselves more towards it, but because of the great majority of customers who care more about multi channel movie watching with impressive sound than two channel music listening with "high fidelity" sound.

it's not your fault, it's not my fault (well maybe partially because I'm one of those people who look for impressive sound rather than realistic sound - if I want realistic, I'll go to a concert), it's not the companies' fault, it's the law of the greatest number. if most people want home theater with dsps, why the heck should companies tell them "no, you can't have it, we're staying true to our roots" and skip over a huge additional revenue?

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Can't resist this thread. Smile.gif

I find myself in both camps, but up until just recently that wasn't true. After many years away from this hobby, I re-entered it due mostly to the HT experience. And as time marched on over the last 6 or so years, my system and emphasis has been on HT gear. So much so that I did an enormous amount of head scratching and planning of my HT for our new house. However, that all changed three Sundays ago when I hauled into my living room my new (old) Cornwalls.

Since they've been in my house, I find myself listening more & more to 2ch. stereo (the way the sound was mixed down BTW) instead of 5ch. stereo. And for the life of me I can't understand why I'm enjoying 2ch. so much more. Has the 5ch. newness worn off?? Hell, maybe it's the Denon, I dunno. All I know is that my mind now thinks in terms of two distinct "systems", if you will. Those being a 2ch system for audio and multi channel for HT. I'm an audio store's dream. Smile.gif

I'm glad HT is here and I'm glad that companies are devoting resources to push the envelope and bring serious gear to us. OTOH, I'm saddened that this HT explosion may come at the expense of 2ch. stereo.

<rhetorical question> Can any of us 30 years from now expect to be reading posts from folks who are selling their vintage RF-7's? Better yet, folks buying 30 year old RF-7's and talking about them like some us do about our Cornwalls, K-Horns, LS, et. al.???

Tom Adams

ps: Yeah - I kinda think the Henry Rollins photo is goofy. But no more so than the like, you know, the implied valley girl, like tone of voice of you know, like "copper is so very in". Wink.gif

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Fargle me if people think I don't know about HT.

I do.

I have a friend with a $10,000 HT setup, and I gotta say, it sucks. Yeah sure, the Velodyne makes you feel like you're in an earthquake. At least makes me wish I was in an earthquake. The Vandersteen fronts have a lot of "snap" to them.

But he puts on music and all I hear is muddy and opaque and totally unlistenable. Unlistenable!

His statement is that most people can "sit for 2 hours watching a movie, but won't do that for music".

Geez. What self-serving logic. How many people watch 40 minutes of a movie and then walk away?

You wanna talk HT, listen to my Khorns providing L+R, no center, no rears, no sub.

Now THERE'S an HT experience. Most people don't even realize that all they are listening to is two speakers.

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Well...I want it all! I want my K-horns, hooked up to Tube monoblocks and a tube preamp in the listening room...AND I want a set of 5 klipsch reference series speaks + subwoofer all hooked up to some killer theater electronics, a progressive scan DVD player and a projector with line doubler...GIVE ME IT ALL...

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*1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs

*Marantz 7T preamp

*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)

*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers

*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)

*MSB silver digital director (switching and jitter reduction)

*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck

*SAE MK VIII tuner

*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge

*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable

*Monster M550i for all interconnects

*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner

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Keith, Seb, Tom, Sal and Randy---You all could not be more right!!!

I started my music fascination as a young kid with LP's and now have over 650 CD's and 40 DVD movies. Since when did it become a crime to love both formats (5.1, 6.1 0R GOD FORBID 7.1 and 2CH). I split my time between 2CH and HT (5.2 in my case with 2 powered subs!!) and am a very critical listener having grown up on LP's and being an early adopter of the CD format.

We should all be thankful for the HT market as many of our beloved speaker manufacturers may find a tough go of it financially if they had to rely just on 2 ch "eccentric audiophiles" such as myself.

Some people just don't grasp the joy that can be found sitting in the sweet spot of your system whether it be 2CH or 5CH. Just like many (not all) Harley riders don't wave to non-Harley riders----some just have an elitist attitude instead of accepting the fact that others have tastes and opinions also.

WHEW! What's with all the hostility!! Smile.gif

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My system(s):

KLF-30's Bi-wired

KLF-C7 (2)

KSP-S6's (2 Pair)

KSW-15 Front Sub

KSW-100 Rear Sub

Chorus II's

Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable

Audioquest interconnects

Niles SPS-4 speaker switch box

Niles wall plates

Niles in-wall volume controls

Marantz SR-8000

Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer

Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer

Mitsubishi 35" TV

Mitsubishi VCR

Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck

Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers

Panamax DBS-8 Surge Protector

Klipsch IC-525's in Master Bath

13" Sony Wega in Master Bath

1 Lava Lamp for Ambience

Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam

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Keith--I had a properly setup HT rig and with lots of muscle, JBL and Altec small format motion picture theater speakers that would have worked in a theatre up to 420 seats. After a while I found the whole multi-channel thing bombastic and boring, now I'm back to stereo and I'm actually very fond of mono too. And the space I gained in the room is better spent on shelves full of books than JBL 4560 bassbins.

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Ehh, you gotta ignore the hype and not take it too seriously. We're all old enough. The world is full of insincerity and someone who has to make a buck, thinking that hype is the way to do it.

Looking at magazine ads: I've seen ads implying that if I buy the speaker there is going to be a naked man in my living room. Something certainly I don't want. Also, there will be a naked woman in my living room. Very welcome, but unrealistic expectations from the best of speakers.

The K-Horns will always survive no matter what the recent "poster musician" might be.

I love to listen and think, "I hear dead people"; referring to Beethoven, Bach, Motzart, etc.

Gil

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As for the picture of "Hank"; I can take it or leave it. I'm not really familiar with his music or him so I just don't much care.

So how did we get to 2 channel vs. HT?

"I have a friend with a $10,000 HT setup, and I gotta say, it sucks. Yeah sure, the Velodyne makes you feel like you're in an earthquake. At least makes me wish I was in an earthquake." -- Randy Bey

Excuse me while I try to quit laughing. Sorry, but that just struck me funny. Had a very similar experience recently at a Joplin, MO A/V store. I was listening (watching? You can't find a pair of speakers in a store that doesn't have a big TeeVee smack between 'em.) a demo using Paradigm Studio 60s with Paradigm center, surrounds and sub. The sound wasn't awful. It just wasn't very good. And the bass! Geez, everytime it would hit this vicious room mode I felt like my fillings were going to all fall out. That can't even be healthy. And it sure ain't musical by any definition of the word I am familiar with. But I guess it was impressive. In some kind of a primitive, vaguely masochistic way.

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JDMcCall

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Seb....I'm one of those people who think good "Realistic Sound" is "Impressive." I could spend a couple hundred bucks and knock pictures off the walls and make my nose hairs sway too, that's just not the way I see it. But that's me, and I know everyone has there own opinions, so let's all be happy...

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I did however enjoy the interview with mr. rollins...his comments on the record industry struck me as revolutionary but incredibly true...worth reading that part at least...as a former screenwriter (a not very successful one) I can really appreciate his comments regarding "the industry" movie or record, very similar...regards, tony

------------------

*1993 K-Horns w/ ALK x-overs

*Marantz 7T preamp

*Dynaco MkIV monoblocks (modded to triode)

*Sony CDP-CX350 and CX-230 CD changers

*MSB link DACIII (96k upsampling)

*MSB silver digital director (switching and jitter reduction)

*Technics M-85 professional Cassette Deck

*SAE MK VIII tuner

*Luxman PD-272 turntable, Grado Red cartridge

*Cardas Crosslink speaker cable

*Monster M550i for all interconnects

*Monster HTS3500 Reference Powercenter Conditioner

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Nothing normative is intended in the bemoaning of the industry's exclusive turn to HT. It's just sad that the two-channel, high-fidelity experience is being shoved into a specialized, esoteric corner of the market. Fidelity used to be the goal just a few years ago; now the goal is pumping up the neato factor of the explosions in a typical movie's soundtrack. Yippie... it sounds just like Roseanne Arnold is right behind me....

I lost any respect I may have had for Henry Rollins when he totally tanked in Win Ben Stein's Money.

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May the bridges we burn light our way....

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Although the origins for multi channel sound may have not started with an altruistic goal for "high fidelity" I think we should all be glad that the technology was and is being developed. The POTENTIAL for a much higher fidelity of music recording now exists. And with the growing acceptance of multi channel set ups (for whatever purpose) in the home of millions of people, the likelyhood that the technology will be used for higher fidelity purposes increases, because the potential market for such recordings increases every time someone purchases a multi channel set up.

What we should really be concerned about is the format war taking place in regards to multi channel audio. The confusion that it creates in the public's mind, and the need for multiple playback machines, that the general public would (IMHO) never tolerate, threatens the chance that multi channel high fidelity audio will reach it's full potential.

Just my 2 cents.

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L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II

Surround: Klipsch RS-3

Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2

Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132

AMP: McIntosh MC-7205

DVD: McIntosh MVP-831

CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer

Turntable: Denon DP-72L

Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1

T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905

SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100

Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000

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<Tom re-enters the fray> Smile.gif

James McCall said: "So how did we get to 2 channel vs. HT?"

Because all good threads have carefully designed tangent paths just waiting for someone to take?? Smile.gif

I'd like to re-address something I said and possibly clarify a point. I mentioned that I appreciate what HT has done, but fear it's come at the expense of 2ch. What I mean by this is that when you see an ad or hear a sales pitch of Klipsch Reference Series, it's always in reference (no pun intended) to HT applications. Even the Legend Series was treated to this to some extent. So why aren't we seeing equal air-time being given to the 2ch. virtues of the RF series? Furthermore, if HT or multi-channel is really where we're heading, why isn't there any touting by the LLC of the performance of the Heritage series in HT applications? Many of us here know that Heritage series work just as well, maybe even better, than the RF stuff. But there's no press to that effect. My feeling is that the Heritage series are percieved to be some niche 2ch speakers. And if the road we're heading down is multi-channel, and the only speakers the LLC associate with multi-channel are the RF's, then what is the long term prospect of the Heritage line? Hmmmmmm......I wonder.

Tom Adams

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Well here goes nothing. I would have to agree with Kevin S on this one. I am not a recording expert but isn't the sound we hear determined by the engineer sitting at a mixing board with some knobs. He is the one that is deciding how we are going to hear the sound right? It is up to this engineer to make a good or bad sounding track wether it is 5 channel or 2 channel or one channel.

I do not like music designed for two channel stereo sound played over all speakers becasue most of the DSP logic in receivers is not up to the task. I listen to all of my CD's in 2 channel mode. However,in my opinion, properly mixed multi channel recording can blow 2 channel away. The Eagle's Hell Freezes Over DVD listened to in 5 Channel DTS and the Bach DVD I have in 5 channel DD are simply awsome. They impart a sense of space that is stagering. If you think about it the only way to faithfully reproduce all the reflections in a concert hall would be to have an infinte amount of microphones for recording and an infinte amount of speakers for playback.

I think that as the recording engineers get used to multi channel sound the recordings will sound more natural and less gimacky. Do you remember when CD's first came out and everyone said that they were harsh (ok some people still say they do)? That was because the engineers needed to learn how to mix for the clarity and dynamic range of the CD.

There were these types of discussion during the change from mono to stereo too. In 10 years we may all be thinking how silly 2 channel is.

Bottom line I think that it is possilbe to have both without tons of expense. I use my 5.1 amp in 2 channel mode for CD's and 5.1 mode for everything else. My Cornwalls are awsome in either mode and the sweet spot is in the same spot.

Just my ramblings folks comments welcome, flames ignored. Remember is it not just a speaker, it si a way of life cwm9.gif

Laters,

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FOR SALE OR TRADE COMPLETE R*3 SYSTEM FOR 3 HERESY'S

Main System -

Cornwalls (L/R main)

RC-3

RS-3's (white)

SVS 20-39CS

Harman Kardon AVR 510

Hafler P505 (running sub)

ProMedia 4.2 v400 for PC

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As I read through this thread, one thing becomes abundantly clear: there are those that do....there are those that don't....and there are those that do both.

File me in the latter catagory. Love my old Khorns. Love listening to my old Khorns hooked up to my Dynaco ST70, old AR turntable for 2 channel music. Love my old Khorns hooked up to my Denon, along with my Belle and rears for the HT experience. Love listening to CD's on my old Khorns hooked up to my Denon in 'stereo' mode.

Upon reflection, I LOVE IT ALL!!!! (well, maybe not all the DSP 'fluff') It's all good to me.

Could it be better? You bet!! That's why we all tweek our goods. But I try not to over analyze the material to the point of distraction from my pleasure. Certainly don't pass judgement upon fellow 'Klipscheads' because their personal preference or taste differs from my own. Philosophically, I try not to immerse myself too deeply in the technical aspects of sound. Thought I should a few weeks back to better understand some of the more technical discussions here and on other forums. But now I guess I've resigned myself to this simple fact (or maybe copout).... I trust my ears. I know what sound's good to my ears and what is satisfying both audibly and emotionally. This has really helped me 'enjoy' the whole experience....be it tube, SS, stereo, HT....whatever I happen to be into at the moment so that rather than constantly thinking how the experience could be better, I'm now thinking 'that sounds damn good'!......no sniff! required Smile.gif

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Ed

Fronts: Pre-1955 Klipschorns (slightly modified)

Center: 1984 Klipsch Belle

Sub: Klipsch KSW200

Surrounds: Tannoy PSM6.5's

Receiver: Denon AVR1701

Video: InFocus LP350 DLP front projector

Satellite: DishNetwork 4722 (DD5.1)

DVD: Panasonic A320

S-VHS: Panasonic PV-S7670

LaserDisc: Pioneer CDL-406

CD: Kenwood CD-404 5-Disc Changer

EQ (for CD player only): Furman E151X2

Protection: Furman AV1215 Power Condition/Voltage Reg

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