New anything vs. Used Heritage, respect your elders!

[DizRotus]

jhamer9

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=64023&sessionID={FACD9616-1C7F-4EAF-B018-F5BDBCBFA49B}

You said, I'd be able to listen and hear which sounds best. I agree that listening and deciding what sounds best to you is critically important, would that it were that simple. The problem is, excellent speakers can sound mediocre in poor environments with the wrong equipment (read Best Buy), while mediocre speakers might sound great in a store (again read Best Buy) but fail to live up to the audition when used in your home, irrespective of placement and equipment tinkering.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

When I, and many of the others on this forum, recommend Klipsch Heritage speakers, its because weve owned and listened to them for decades, in our homes, in the homes of friends, in stores, in recording studios, etc. Ive heard every Klipsch Heritage speaker--from Khorns to Heresiessound fantastic when properly set up, or sound dreadful when used with poor equipment or improperly placed in a space. Unless you have a similar opportunity with any new speaker, IMHO long term satisfaction is more of a crap shoot with a new speaker than buying a used Klipsch Heritage.

Go to a library and peruse the back issues of audio magazines to read the rave reviews of the newest and "greatest" speakers that have come and gone in the last fifty years. How many of those speakers are still available and valuednew or usedtoday?

Clearly, and thankfully, Klipsch Heritage speakers are not everyones cup of tea; otherwise the used prices would skyrocket. Nevertheless, Klipschorn, La Scala, Belle, Cornwall and Heresy speakers have endured, essentially unchanged, for decades because, when used with the right equipment and in the right environment, they produce a sound that we feel cannot be equaled or surpassed at anything close to the cost. Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which, when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy. My own BBC LS3/5As with KEF B139 transmission line subs are relegated to HT use. They are excellent, albeit power hungry, speakers that cost much more than the used Klipsch Heritage that I prefer when I listen to music.

Take your receiver to BB and see if they will let you use it to play their speakers, or ask BB if you can bring the speakers to your space. The answer will probably be no. Nevertheless, many people on this forum have done essentially that by hooking up with nearby members who invite them to their homes to hear their Klipsch Heritage speakers. Everyone listens to used speakers, but Klipsch Heritage fanciers listen to speakers that have been made and enjoyed for decades.

Ultimately, you must be happy with your purchase.

[DizRotus]

Lest there be any misunderstanding, by "elders" I'm referring to the timeless Klipsch Heritage speakers not myself or other even more geriatric forum members. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Opinions are like bodily orifices, everyone has them. Mine are no better than the next persons. Each person should take them for what theyre worth. That said, its wise to not ignore the collective wisdom of five decades of satisfied Klipsch heritage owners and users.

[dodger]

Besides excellent sound, there is, at least for me, a yearning for day of more simplicity.

The Heritage Line was THE line - all American, didn't change much.

Also sources did not seem to change as often. Receivers, Amplifiers, Pre-amps, Integrateds, - the models were around a little longer.

The changes in HT didn't exist.

It seemed simpler. We were younger.

Now not only are the speakers Heritage, but in some ways we are also. Mortality is not easy to face.

We were always going to be in our teens or our twenties. The loves we had would last. The cars we owned were the best.

Like a Rock. That says quite a bit for me. Seger has this darker side as I do but repress.

It can't be repressed 100 % of the time, there are those nights.

But the Heritage Line will still be going when others drop. People like Bob, Dean, Al they see them continue. They put their stamp on them. Think of it 50 year old speakers - still going, still able to be repaired.

Yes, buying new is good. I have only explained my own take on Heritage and three working to keep them going,, Dr. Dave, others also know them well and will restore.

dodger

[DTLongo]

I am being subjective here but part of the reason I am enjoying my '03 Klipschorns and '04 Belle purchased new is that they ARE vintage, time-enduring and yet still contemporary classics, like a Steinway grand piano.

Yes there is a pride of ownership in that sense too, in addition to how great they sound.

[Audible Nectar]

Yeah - a Steinway piano, or riding a Harley.

That's it - a Harley. Klipsch Heritage + Mc Tubes = Harley Davidson Fatboy.

Live to Listen - Listen to Live

[Deang]

"Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which, when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy."

Well yeah, I guess so. Driven with good stuff, those speakers sound better than any medicore horn system.

[DizRotus]

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On 4/11/2005 11:05:49 AM DeanG wrote:

"Many of the forum members have owned speakers such as Quad ESL, Dhalquist, Magnepan, etc., each of which,

when used properly , has the potential to sound better than anything ever sold at Best Buy."

Well yeah, I guess so. Driven with good stuff, those speakers sound better than any medicore horn system.

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Dean

What's your point? Are you merely restating the obvious, that BB only sells speakers that are inferior to those mentioned? Your comment could be taken as an implication that Klipsch Heritage speakers are mediocre horn system(s). I doubt that was your intention.

It was my intention to indicate to jhamer9 that many forum members, i.e., many Klipsch Heritage owners, have settled on Klipsch Heritage with proper associated equipment after owning speakers such as those mentioned. It was my goal to quickly put the collective decisions of the many Klipsch Heritage owners into a perspective that would enable jhamer9 to understand why, IMHO, selecting a used Klipsch Heritage speaker to go with the HK 430 would be less risky than selecting anything from BB.

[DizRotus]

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On 4/11/2005 9:56:49 AM DTLongo wrote:

I am being subjective here but part of the reason I am enjoying my '03 Klipschorns and '04 Belle purchased new is that they ARE vintage, time-enduring and yet still contemporary classics, like a Steinway grand piano.

Yes there is a pride of ownership in that sense too, in addition to how great they sound.

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DTLongo-

Your comments are well taken. "Anything new" was not intended to include Klipsch Heritage. Your reasons for preferring new are eminently reasonable and well understood.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Realistically, jhamer9 was not considering new Klipsch Heritage (other than possibly Heresy) to go with the newly acquired used HK 430 receiver.

The point of the post was to point out that Klipsch Heritage speakers (used and new) have stood the test of time. I hoped to demonstrate how unlikely it is that anything else that is new would still be sold essentially unchanged decades later (as your excellent speakers are).

[D-MAN]

I have often wondered why I went back to the "old" technology after exploring some of the "new".

It's not just a nostalgia thing. It actually stems from the realization that some products so embody the technologies AT SOME POINT in their development - like Harleys, and VW Beetles, Levi Stauss Blue Jeans, etc. achieved the level of defining and embodying the technology SO WELL and SO COMPLETELY that it BECAME the quintessence of the technology, the inventiveness of the time, and the example by which all others are judged. It's the "Gestalt" of the thing... the "completeness".

At that CERTAIN point of "being completely what it is", the thing and its performance (if any) cannot be "improved" upon, but can only be made "different".

Hence, the idea that at a certain point of development, the methodology changes, but the underlying technology doesn't. Like the Japanese motorcycles TRYING to sound, look and feel like the classic Harley. Yes, the "new" may out-perform (and outlast) the "old" but the elemental criteria for judging the performance is ONLY based on the "old" quintessential technology.

DM

[Deang]

"What's your point? Are you merely restating the obvious, that BB only sells speakers that are inferior to those mentioned? Your comment could be taken as an implication that Klipsch Heritage speakers are mediocre horn system(s).

My point is that the aforementioned speakers not only sound better than anything ever sold by Best Buy, but can also sound better than anything ever made by Klipsch -- if not being driven with good gear.

[DizRotus]

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On 4/11/2005 2:01:33 PM DeanG wrote:

"What's your point? Are you merely restating the obvious, that BB only sells speakers that are inferior to those mentioned?

Your comment could be taken as an implication that Klipsch Heritage speakers are mediocre horn system(s).

My point is that the aforementioned speakers not only sound better than anything ever sold by Best Buy, but can also sound better than anything ever made by Klipsch -- if not being driven with good gear.

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Yo do mean if the Klipsch are "not being driven by good gear" don't you? You're not suggesting that the aforementioned speakers driven by poor gear would still sound better than Klipsch driven by good gear, are you?

[cjgeraci]

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On 4/11/2005 3:09:58 PM DizRotus wrote:

Yo do mean if the Klipsch are "not being driven by good gear" don't you? Your're not suggesting that the aforementioned speakers driven by poor gear would still sound better than Klipsch driven by good gear, are you?

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I'll save Dean typing this one out again since Dean and I have discussed this issue a few times and Dean has previously posted his thoughts on the subject. Yes, Dean means that the aforementioned brands of speakers can sound better than a variety of Klipsch speakers run by poor gear. I agree.

Carl.

[DizRotus]

We seem to be in agreement.......I think.

[Fish]

Well...I for one can tell ya that all I've seen at BB is the starter line of Klipsch speakers.You're right,the heritage are superior to Synergy(no news here)imo.I just want to add that most any Klipsch speaker is more prone to the adverse affects of poor/mismatched gear,as most of us have found.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

This seems like an appropriate thread for this...

For the last 8-10 months I've been listening to my KG4's using an older Yamaha surround receiver as a preamp and a used, but new to me, Perreaux SS amp. The whole set-up had been in mothballs as our house was being built. When it came out was the first time I had the chance to get the Perreaux hooked up, liked it, and left it set up that way. Two channel only. The other day I was home alone in the afternoon, doing some work downstairs, had the tunes cranked up upstairs, running over 95-100 dB averages. First time I'd had any real time to play wit my new RS meter. Found one spot, about two feet left of the dishwasher, that had a BIG bass boost, was neat to step into and out of for a minute or two.

Anyway... I'm downstairs working on sheetrock, suddenly things started sounding really odd upstairs. Ran up, the left speaker sounded terrible, no bass, no treble, very mushy and hollow. Popped the cover off, covered the low drivers and tweeter individually, didn't seem to make any difference, so shut everything down. Checked all my cables/speaker wires, all ok. Swapped interconnects from the CDP, no change. Took the Perreaux out of the loop, sound was all better, checked the fuses on the amp, sure enough, had blown one of them. Didn't have spares on hand, so just cranked 'er back up and was going to go back to work, but the sound was gone. It was still there, just gone from the full, deep, dynamic sound the Perreaux had me accustomed to. I checked with the meter, could still get the same SPL, but it was just not the same. It was lifeless, lacked depth, shallow, hollow, just not right. Remember, the Yami had been out of the loop as an amp for close to a year, so what it sounded like before I can't fully recall, though it always seemed fine before. Before I got accustomed to the Perreaux, that is. My Yamaha is rated at 110 w per side in 2 channel, the Perreaux 200, but with much more headroom, nearly 3 dB. It's also rated at +0, -0.12 dB 20-20k at 1 watt, which I'm sure explains why it sounds so much better at lower volumes.

Basically, all I'm saying is that I'm a true believer that the upstream components can drastically effect the sound out of your speakers. I've had the personal experience to prove it. I'm not quite ready to bite on interconnects or special speaker wire yet, but that's a different, often rehashed thread.

Now if I just had that room finished downstairs...

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I've had a real ear opening experience with changing amps/preamps using a pair of Heresys. Switching from a vintage tubed Scott LK-48-b to a harmon-kardon Citation 16 with Marantz ss pre was like getting a completly different system. The sound was like someone turned the bass control way down and the treble control way up. The Heresys and the citation 16 just didn't go together at all. The old Scott and the Heresys were a match made in heaven. It's just hard to visualize the difference without hearing it. I was amazed at the difference!

Dave

[dalcorn]

In regards to matching the Heresy Is with the right amplifier, how might they sound on an HK AVR 125 ( http://www.harmankardon.com/product_support/support_detail.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=∏=AVR%20125&sjump=active )

I won't be using any DSP ("surround" modes) with it, mainly stereo for music just occasionaly movies using dolby. I was going to add in a sub as well.

How well matched is this pair? I really want to try the Heritage series, but perhaps the reference series would be better suited for my receiver (RF-25s or 35s)

[DizRotus]

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On 4/12/2005 3:04:53 PM dalcorn wrote:

"...how might they sound on an HK AVR 125"

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No experience, i.e., no opinion. Perhaps a forum member in your area (SC) will invite you to bring your receiver to their Heresys for a listen.

[D-MAN]

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On 4/11/2005 6:16:10 PM Champagne taste beer budget wrote:

Basically, all I'm saying is that I'm a true believer that the upstream components can drastically effect the sound out of your speakers. I've had the personal experience to prove it. I'm not quite ready to bite on interconnects or special speaker wire yet, but that's a different, often rehashed thread.

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So what's your point?

DM

[dalcorn]

That would be nice. I get out from school (Clemson University) around the 2nd week in May, and I will be in the Charlotte, NC area for the summer. This is when I wanted to purchase the speakers and if I could listen to someones with my receiver it would be helpful.