Electrovoice Aristocrat vs Heresy, vs Cornwall vs Klipschorn

[snuck]

I have one near me, and I was just wondering if anyone had the opportunity to compare them. If you think they'll compare favorably, I might just scoop the cab up and restore the drivers! If they dont compare favorably, I'll probably be better off saving up for a used cornwall.

Cheers

-vic

[sunnysal]

you list four speakers...which one did you find? and with which do you wish to compare? those are a very diverse group of speakers.

However if you are thinking of the aristocrat versus the klipsch here are a few thougts; aristocrats were produced in various models from coax single driver models to full "three way" speakers. perhaps the most famous and desired is the coax with the 12trx driver (it looked kinda like an altec 604)...the "three ways" used added a t35 tweeter to the 12 and 12b coax models. these corner horns were not really horn loaded bass bins they used the corner to horn load the PORT of a bass reflex system. got down to a claimed 30hz but I have heard that they only respond down to about 40hz. you need to research exactly which model is being offered with which drivers.

this speaker is hard to compare to the klipsch speakers since they are such different implementations BUT if you got the full house "three ways" they might compare somewhat to the cornwall, they would all have somewhat fuller bass than a heresy and none would really compare to the klipschorn which goes lower and has a more fully developed midrange.

NOTE: I have not heard an arsitocrat, these are all comments based on what I have read over the years on the internet from owners and from the company specs.

let us know what model you have found for better comments.

regards, tony

btw see:

http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Electro-Voice/Electro-Voice.htm

for more info

[snuck]

I found an aristocrat. lovely, but with a weird driver, nonelectrovoice on the inside -So I'd have to reoutfit it. I can probably bargain the guy down to $75 bucks.

Cheers

-vic

[Guy Landau]

[Guy Landau]

[Marvel]

A pair of these just sold recently on eBay for under $300. They were two way models with the tweeter mounted on the woofer.

EV Aristocrats

[snuck]

yep, I saw them. I really need to find the opinion of a good 'ear' because I can't find anywhere to audition them.

Cheers

-vic

[Ballylongford]

"aristocrats were produced in various models from coax single driver models to full "three way" speakers..."

My two cents on this:

I have owned original Cornwalls and the Aristocrats are a different animal; it's not really correct to compare them.

Aristocrats: 12" Woofer vs. Cornwalls: 15", Cornwalls much larger, heavier (>100 lbs each vs. 40 lbs each for the most common Aristocrat configuration).

The Aristocrats do what they do pretty well; they are very good in reproducing voice in a very natural manner, something that is unusual. The Aristocrats pre-date stereo; they go back to the days of monophonic Hi-Fi which is why I think you see so many Aristocrat singles. IF you have a single Aristocrat they are hard to find an exact match because of the many flavors of Aristocrats there were. This holds true for many of the Electro-Voice speakers of that vintage.

I still like the Aristocrats, but not so much in the most common configuration I have seen, which was an SP12B woofer ( 1 lb. magnet structure) and a T35B tweeter (per EV literature should only be used with amps up to 20 wpc).

The SP12B woofer does not give all that much bass; room placement is critical when playing an Aristocrat with

the SP12B.

Tweeter output from the T35B is not all it could be either.

I much prefer the sound of the T35 tweeter. The only difference between the T35 and the T35B cited in the EV

literature is the difference in power handling but to my ear and some of my Electro-voice afficianado friends the

T35 has a much more open sound that makes a smoother transition across the midrange.

I think the Aristocrats with T35 tweeters, and an SP12 woofer a better sounding speaker.

The 12TRXB has essentially a version of the T35B tweeter mounted on the woofer; I have not heard it in an Aristocrat

The 12TRX essentially has a version of the T35 tweeter mounted on the woofer: I have not heard it, but am advised that it can be a bit bright.

In my opinion, the Aristocrats in any configuration do a great job on voice reproduction; very natural sounding; I

currently have one Aristocrat with the SP12B/T35B configuration which I have had occasion to compare to

speakers costing Thousands of dollars a pair. The Aristocrats were, not suprisingly, not as good as the very

expensive speakers, but they held their own pretty well for such an old design.

What I would be interested in hearing is from any posters who have tried using a T35 tweeter with a Cornwall; I've

heard from audiophiles who have simply placed a T35 on top of Altecs using caps for a xover and have been very impressed with the results.

The Altecs, imo, rely too much on their horn mid-ranges and fall down on the highs. The Electro-Voice tweeters bridge that problem nicely.

[D-MAN]

The Aristocrat is a contemporary of the Klipsch "Rebel/Shorthorn". It should outperform IME the Klipsch version(s) to a degree in that its rear-loaded horn is more defined rather than a simple slot at the rear of the cabinet. Scaling it up for a 15" woofer would be a very interesting project.

Here's the 1953 plans.

DM

[CaptnBob]

I'm not sure, but I think the Aristocrat was a Klipsch design, although there is some evidence that anything designed to go in a corner was called a "Klipsch" type horn.

As had been noted, the sound of an Aristocrat is heavily dependent on the drivers. I've wondered on occasion how Heresy drivers would fare in one. You'd certainly have to adjust the crossover, but the results would be interesting.

The 12trx can be REALLY bright, but I think the concept was that you would put an L pad on the tweeter and control the brightness that way. By the way, the 12trx fares best in a big cabinet - we're talking Cornwall size here. I got a pair of Sentry II cabinets (about twice the size of a Heresy) with an eye to putting 12trxs in them, and then found out they were too small to even show up on the official "port size nomograph." I'm now looking for a pair of defunct refrigerators...

[D-MAN]

{edit} The following paragraph is incorrect, based on later research, the EV Aristocrat predated the Klipsh Shorthorn design by at least 5 years. -dm

Yes, PWK certainly got every corner-speaker design attributed to him, rightly or wrongly. In this case, wrongly. The Aristocrat was an EV design intended to compete with the Rebel/Shorthorn then in production by Klipsch. Some other back-loaded corner horns were produced by Tannoy as the Autograph and the GRF, which are more complicated to build than the Aristocrat design. Interestingly, these are NOT attributed to PWK, by the same token.

Notably, PWK thought enough of the Shorthorn/Rebel design that he sought patent protection on it. The design was dropped from the Klipsch line after a few years, not something that PWK was often prone to do. He did admit later in a magazine article that it wasn't one of his better performing designs (I'm paraphrasing).

DM

[D-MAN]

Here is a cross-sectional view of the Klipsch Shorthorn design extracted from the "Horn Type Loudspeakers" article posted by Gil. The comment is the authors, I disagree with the assessment that it isn't really a corner horn. Its a rear-loaded corner horn (short, but a horn never-the-less).

DM

[snuck]

Thank you very much for the input, it's very helpful.. I think that I will pick them up them.. although strangely enough, I know that it has a bozak driver shoved in it so its a bit of a frankenstein...

I might attempt to build it into a sp12 t35 t25 config, although that would mean $$$$$$$

Cheers

-vic

[D-MAN]

Here's the first patent that I used to think was later the Klipsch "Shorthorn", but now I've changed my mind. Note that this is PWK's first run at a corner horn patent, per se, and that he possibly drew up the drawings himself (no attorney). The later Klipschorn patent was of course, the "biggie", which followed a few years later.

Some interesting elements of this design that are not the usual PWK elements are 1) non-symetrical horn, 2) back-loaded horn, 3) curved interior horn walls.

The Shorthorn/Rebel contains a couple of these elements, but is drastically less complicated overall than the patent design below. The interior curved horn channels were dropped completely replaced by the use of a 1"x 36" vertical slot at the rear of the enclosure in the Rebel/Shorthorn.

DM

[CaptnBob]

This must have been a bear to make.

[D-MAN]

Here's another rear-loaded corner horn patent from '58.

This one is interesting because it is a unitary horn path until splitting at the back reflector.

DM

[D-MAN]

drawing 2 of 3. Notice the rear-deflector; quite a bit like the Jubilee... It also is not a symetrical design, which is very different from PWK designs, for the most part. This is a nice long horn, approximate to Khorn in overall length, albiet a rear-loaded design. Additionally, the expansion rate disclosed in the patent text as being HYPERBOLIC vs. the more traditional EXPONENTIAL. It is also reported to resonate in the low 20Hz range using a driver with a res. of 60Hz.

DM

[D-MAN]

Last-but-not-least, a Shorthorn-look-alike? Well, if you uses curved walls - works the same anyway, and probably sounds better. Patented 3 years AFTER the Shorthorn.

DM

[D-MAN]

Actual 1958 Shorthorn patent by PWK. I was wrong again in assuming that the PWK design came BEFORE the EV Aristocrat - the Shorthorn came 5 years AFTER the EV, of course... again the EV model should outperform the Klipsch Shorthorn due to a longer and more elaborate horn pathway, although it was a 12" driver. The Klipsch Shorthorn is probably the nicest looking (IMO) cosmetically-speaking of these types of rear-loaded corner horns.

DM

[snuck]

great scott! good history! I think it's pretty much settle, Im goign to try picking the aristocrat up and finding a mate. Strangely enough I now recognize that it has a Bozak driver on the inside... so I'll have to eventually find some replacement drivers there too....

Cheers

-vic