ben. Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Yeah, Griff! Learn to use the Behringer! Puhlease! chops, your posts speak volumes. The way to clean up 60Hz hum is not with a gate. As soon as a signal opens the gate, it's there underneath everything. And why on earth you're compressing the signal sent to sub, I've no idea, unless you're playing homemade recordings.... Griff knows his way around a studio, and speaks the truth. I have to wonder why folks get so defensive about a darn EQ. Admit there's better stuff out there, and that the Behringer is a cost compromise. Every member (myself included) taking part in this thread has a system full of cost compromises. No big deal. Griff was just offering an alternate point of reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Again, it's who pays for it. All of you have at least one valid point - going from Dean's not moving it around to Frezin's DBX to BSA's recommendations to my Ashly. Then the recommendations for moving up the ladder without going broke. I've used Behringer, DBX, Rane, Ashly, ART and many other brands for live sound and some for home. The points and opinions have been expressed. Let the buyer decide based upon what is information in this thread vs opinion and what is heard for the amount the buyer can afford. Sometimes spending $200.00 more is not within the buyer's ability. That's the ability to move up and the ability to actually learn and hear any differences. For reviews, Consumer Reports for years gave Samsung a great rating. A Tech that worked at a store selling their equipment was totally amazed by the failure rate. Some here swear by their equipment. Griff, I understand where you come from - I've seen the bias toward "Pro" in a number of things. Bottom line - let the buyer listen and decide - keep, move up or start higher. The info has been put out, no need to argue every point, unless someone can provide the better quality at a lower price for Forum Members. PMs would be great. If not, it's their system, their hearing, their money. Most are grown adults, they should be able to research and audition in an adult manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 1:29:20 PM ben. wrote: Yeah, Griff! Learn to use the Behringer! Puhlease! chops, your posts speak volumes. The way to clean up 60Hz hum is not with a gate. As soon as a signal opens the gate, it's there underneath everything. And why on earth you're compressing the signal sent to sub, I've no idea, unless you're playing homemade recordings.... Griff knows his way around a studio, and speaks the truth. I have to wonder why folks get so defensive about a darn EQ. Admit there's better stuff out there, and that the Behringer is a cost compromise. Every member (myself included) taking part in this thread has a system full of cost compromises. No big deal. Griff was just offering an alternate point of reference. ---------------- Great Post, Ben. I know that I've compromised by not adding $110.00 per foot Speaker Cables. I bought my Cornwalls instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 10:11:03 AM Frzninvt wrote: DBX, Rane, Alesis, and Ashley are all junk if you want a real home equalizer/RTA look into an Accuphase DG-28. ---------------- Well, if you've got the $8200, and want to shoot the high end, I'd skip all these digital equalizers and go invest in a few channels of REAL Equalization by George Massenburg Labs - and throw a simple, straightforward Samson D-1500 RTA on there if you need the visual aids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 11:37:19 AM chops wrote: And sorry about the "attack-dog" attitude. It can't be helped. ---------------- Obviously. Some of us have the interaction skills necessary to remain civil. Others weren't blessed with such talents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 1:29:20 PM ben. wrote: The way to clean up 60Hz hum is not with a gate. ---------------- I was thinking the same thing myself, Ben. Why did he think he needed a compressor/limiter in a subwoofer chain is beyond my comprehension, unless he was planning to put more power to the sub than it could handle. A simple single-channel para-EQ would solve his 60Hz problem, via a hi-Q -30dB notch at 60Hz. Of course, if he actually wanted to take care of that 60Hz hum properly, he'd have gone and found the ground loop that was creating the hum in the first place. But hey, far be it for me to tell him about sound quality. He knows how to use his Behringer gear, and apparently neither I nor any studio owner I've ever had this discussion with does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I need some help figuring out the pecking order here for devices similar to the Behringer DEQ 2496. According to the comments on here, it seems to be a unit that is very popular. What other products are there out there that do a similar task, but do it better, either with better parts or have other advantages. Could someone give me a better idea as to what the advantages are of the other products? I am not looking for an attack on the Behringer, but rather the advantages of some of the other products out there. The 2496 seems to offer a good deal at it's price point, what is the next step up the ladder. What do I gain and what would I lose with another option? We have done this before, post the options that are out there and comment on their relative strengths and weaknesses. That's how I learned to redo my crossovers, buy a tube integrated, tube monoblocks, tube preamp and also tube tuner. Without your incite, I never would have the equipment that I own now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 3:07:23 PM bsafirebird1969 wrote: http://imagewhiz.com/images/bswafirebird1969/beatdeadhorse.gif" alt="image hosting by http://imagewhiz.com/" /> ---------------- LOL!!! I just ASNRD'd soda all over my monitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 First off, the reason I used the compressor/limiter on the sub was bacause that Klipsch sub could only handle 400 watts and I had well over 700 watts on tap. The reason for the gate was because that cheap DBX crossover had a cheap internal power supply instead of a wall-wort. No matter how I had it connected; different outlets from everything else or with a dual prong cheater plug, I still got the hum. You could even hear the hum coming straight from the chassis. I never said Behringer was the best thing out there nor did I ever say there wasn't anything better. I know better than that. I don't move my equipment around constantly and I do not abuse my equipment, so I have no issues with reliability. As for sound quality, I have only used Behringer euqipment for subwoofers, which have all been crossed over at 80Hz or lower. So if there are any discrepancies in sound quality, I highly doubt I'm going to hear it in the bass unless it is lacking extension below 15Hz. To each his own. And for "remaining civil", I would if you wouldn't be such a wise-a_ _ and talk down to people like you are better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 5:25:53 PM chops wrote: As for sound quality, I have only used Behringer euqipment for subwoofers, which have all been crossed over at 80Hz or lower. So if there are any discrepancies in sound quality, I highly doubt I'm going to hear it in the bass unless it is lacking extension below 15Hz. ---------------- So where exactly do you come off as the know-it-all for Behringer equipment? The guy I mentioned had been attempting to play a bass guitar through a rig containing a Behringer comp. Guess what? You can hear the difference in the rest of the frequency range. You used a Behringer comp as a stop-limiter and a gate on your sub, putting only 80Hz and lower through it, and you're telling me that I must not know what I'm doing if I can't get a good sound out of a piece of Behringer equipment in real-world applications?! You are so not worthy of any more of my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 6:25:33 PM Griffinator wrote: You are so not worthy of any more of my time. ---------------- Yeah, like you've ever been worthy of my time. You never asked, so I never told. What's your point? BTW, you sound so much like a little teenaged girl when you put that "so" in your sentences. And see what I mean about you down-talking to people?! I noticed you didn't mention anything about that in my last post. Now maybe you can see why I have absolutely no respect for you, or what you have to say, whether you're right or not. All of the BS in this thread is based soley on opinions, and no one's opinion is either wrong or right. I don't pretend to be a know-it-all or go into detialed explanations about something, or spend half the day in front of the computer looking up facts on the internet just to prove someone wrong. I just don't care. I tell it how it is. If you're OK with than, then fine. But if you have a problem with it, tuff. It's obvious the two of us have never got along since the beginning. Chances are, we probably never will. And until you start showing a little more respect towards others, whether they're right, wrong or misinformed or whatever, and start treating them like people instead of just words on your computer screen, then I'm going to stay this way. It's as simple as that. And to everyone else, I'm sorry if this thread has become pooh. I just came in to voice my opinion and defend a company that is obviously successful, but for whatever reason I am suddenly the town A-hole and get strung up by my b@lls. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I just ordered a second DCX2496 as well as an SRC2496 and a tangle of cheap Hosa cables. I'm going to have a pile of crap that looks like a permanent Christmas tree once all this gear is lit up along side my two JVC F10 receivers. Red, green, orange and blue lights will be a blinkin'. We're talking 5 way active. Yeah baby! (I'm going to need to wear sunglasses to listen.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 On 7/6/2005 10:50:52 AM cjgeraci wrote: Tony, I understand where you are coming from - especially with level matching. However, one obvious thing (or caveat) that I failed to point out with respect to Dean's, Chris' and my experience with the Behringer is that I believe we are all using our respective units just after a Peach. And each of us reports quality sound by doing so. One thing that may help is that the Peach has adjustable levels for the amount of output signal it is feeding out - so we can adjust that level if we do not like the original results. My only point is that maybe part of our overall positive may be the nice quality of our preamp, and maybe others with different preamps may not have as favorable as experience as we have running after a Peach. Maybe Mike can chime in here because I do not recall what he is running as a pre. -------------------------------- Good Question Carl!! Maybe this will help others to understand the bases of where some of our opinions have been formed from. Carl I have not had the time to explore all the different ways I could use the Behringer DEQ 2496 in my system, just not enough time. So far I use the Analog Inputs and Outputs of the Behringer. I use the Behringer between a Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24 and my preamp which was a Cary AES AE3 DJH but recently changed to a Cary SLP98L Preamp into either my Cary AES SE-1 2A3 Single Ended AMP or Cary CAD 2A3i Integrated 2A3 Push/Pull AMP into my Klipschorns. I also use acoustical room treatments which consist of ASC TUBE TRAPS AND ASC WALL PANELS and RPG SKYLINE DIFFUSION PANELS. As I have said before my present listening room has been the largest challenge of the Three Rooms/Houses I have installed my KHorns in. Again I have to say I feel the Behringer has held its place in my system and has dealt very well with the audible problems I have identified in my room that the room treatments couldn't completely solve by themselves. The MOST IMPORTANT THING is I enjoy listening more to my music and the Behringer deserves its share of credit for this! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 8:07:01 PM mikebse2a3 wrote: Again I have to say I feel the Behringer has held its place in my system and has dealt very well with the audible problems I have identified in my room that the room treatments couldn't completely solve by themselves. The MOST IMPORTANT THING is I enjoy listening more to my music and the Behringer deserves its share of credit for this! ---------------- And all I've been saying from the very beginning is that, just as you've worked your way up the line through amps, preamps, CD players, and speakers, you'll also discover, if you're willing to take another step, that an upgrade over that EQ will open your sound up in ways you never thought possible. Furthermore, using an outboard DAC off that disc player will blow your mind in all kinds of ways. Yes, it's your money. And yes, right now the Behringer is "good enough" for your purposes. Don't dismiss the posibility that a step up to the Rane RA-20, for example, won't make that Behringer look feeble in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 8:17:50 PM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- And all I've been saying from the very beginning is that, just as you've worked your way up the line through amps, preamps, CD players, and speakers, you'll also discover, if you're willing to take another step, that an upgrade over that EQ will open your sound up in ways you never thought possible. Furthermore, using an outboard DAC off that disc player will blow your mind in all kinds of ways. Yes, it's your money. And yes, right now the Behringer is "good enough" for your purposes. Don't dismiss the posibility that a step up to the Rane RA-20, for example, won't make that Behringer look feeble in comparison. ---------------- Griff I was using an Outboard (anti jitter device) as well as a seperate Tube D/A Converter before I went with the Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24 with its upsampling D/A converter and believe me I'm very happy with this unit. So I'm curious what outboard DAC and why do you think it would be better than the Upsampling DACs already used in this unit? Griff I always have an open mind to experiencing new equipment and I would love to hear many different pieces of equipment(including the Rane you suggest) so that I can form my own opinion of what works best for my system and what I choose to use and spend my money on. What I don't understand is why you think I would dismiss anything like the Rane. I didn't let the Name or Price of the Behringer sway my opinion of the performance I was getting in my system from its use and maybe someday I'll get a chance to hear the Rane also. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 9:25:15 PM mikebse2a3 wrote: Griff I was using an Outboard (anti jitter device) as well as a seperate Tube D/A Converter before I went with the Musical Fidelity CD-Pre24 with its upsampling D/A converter and believe me I'm very happy with this unit. So I'm curious what outboard DAC and why do you think it would be better than the Upsampling DACs already used in this unit? Griff I always have an open mind to experiencing new equipment and I would love to hear many different pieces of equipment(including the Rane you suggest) so that I can form my own opinion of what works best for my system and what I choose to use and spend my money on. What I don't understand is why you think I would dismiss anything like the Rane. I didn't let the Name or Price of the Behringer sway my opinion of the performance I was getting in my system from its use and maybe someday I'll get a chance to hear the Rane also. mike ---------------- As to the CD Pre you're currently using, I can't speak to its effectiveness, other than I'd like to see it with the top off - if only for curiosity as to how they managed to magnetically and mechanically isolate all those systems within the single box. Granted, that's a single $3000 box that handles everything but the amplification - pretty tough to beat from a cost/performance perspective, considering that you replaced a preamp, player, DAC, and (presumably, you said anti-jitter device) external clock with it. I'm not sure about that Tube DAC you mentioned, but I know that for my money, I want transparency out of my DAC, and I can't imagine a DAC with a tube device in the gain stage (in all likelihood, a starved-plate design, much like the entry-level tube mic preamps available all over the place these days) having transparency as its primary goal. For upsampling, I'd point you immediately to Bel Canto's DAC2 - upsamples to 192Khz in a very tiny box. Transparency? Like virgin glass. For $1300 list, it's a gem. Personally, I'm not big on upsampling anyhow, it's the bitrate that makes the difference in my NSHO. So I'd point you to something like the Benchmark DAC1 or Apogee Mini-DAC. These two companies are renowned for their ability to do deadly accurate converstions both ways - ADC and DAC. Either unit can be had for inside of $1000. "Jitter reduction units" - again, I'm assuming you mean master clocks, are pretty much an unnecessary expense when dealing with a single source and single output. I wouldn't use a master clock unless I were working with three or more input sources (say, 3 8-channel ADC's) - DAC's have gotten way better since these things were popular, to the point where the cabling between the extra units would neutralize the benefits realized by inserting such a device in the chain. Everything else is all about you taste - the transport, preamp, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 And all I've been saying from the very beginning is that, just as you've worked your way up the line through amps, preamps, CD players, and speakers, you'll also discover, if you're willing to take another step, that an upgrade over that EQ will open your sound up in ways you never thought possible. Furthermore, using an outboard DAC off that disc player will blow your mind in all kinds of ways. Yes, it's your money. And yes, right now the Behringer is "good enough" for your purposes. Don't dismiss the posibility that a step up to the Rane RA-20, for example, won't make that Behringer look feeble in comparison. ---------------- Very well said and point very well made. You mention the Benchmark DAC1. I was very close to buying one but went with the AH! Njoe 4000 instead. I spoke to an engineer at Benchmark and was impressed but for one comment that I kept hearing. If the source is poor you will hear it. I know all of the arguments about accuracy and so forth, but most of my music if from the 70's. I didn't want to make most of my music unenjoyabel to listen to. The Benchmark engineer stated that this would happen (be repeatidly stating that old recording will sound poor). I may have given up some accuracy with the AH!, but I can listen to all of my music and it sounds great. However, I would consider the Benchmark if I feel the need to set fire to some extra money and want a second dac for "good recordings" (but $975 is a little steep for that right now!) I am trying to be realistic right now and realize that my MP3's will sound bad with a really accurate DAC. I checked out the one that you reccomended. Any others considering the source will be MP3's and sattelite radio? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 12:07:09 AM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: I am trying to be realistic right now and realize that my MP3's will sound bad with a really accurate DAC. I checked out the one that you reccomended. Any others considering the source will be MP3's and sattelite radio? ---------------- Did you check the link I posted in reply last time, for the M-Audio Super DAC? For that purpose, I'd say it's a good buy, and a solid little unit. I used to use one for on-location recording environments, just for monitoring purposes, and it did fine. Outside of that, Lucid makes a very nice 2-channel DAC, but I'm not sure it fits into your price requirements... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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