Frzninvt Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Using those alligator clips in the network is going to increase resistance quite a bit and could affect the network and speaker performance. I realize they are there so you can swap values out but they could be causing audible differences as crazy as it may sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:46:44 AM Frzninvt wrote: Using those alligator clips in the network is going to increase resistance quite a bit and could affect the network and speaker performance. I realize they are there so you can swap values out but they could be causing audible differences as crazy as it may sound. ---------------- I am sure that JC is just using them for easy change out of components during the test phase. However, the increased resistance is tiny compared to what you would have using an original old cap in the crossovers or a new Jensen for instance. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I couldn't stand it any longer. I hooked it up. First of all, I think it is balanced. I'm gonna keep the taps the way they are right now. The tweeter is not too hot like I thought it would. Now the Sqwauker is comin at me. I think, however, this is the Type "A" that I am not used to hearing (at least in awhile). The mid is VERY open so the Klipsch sound is there. However, slightly "thin". Not sure how to explain it. This could be due to the cheap Solen 13 uF cap I have there for testing. No harshness even at a fairly loud volume. The tweeter seems right on; quite surprised. Now for the Bass. It sounds very fast. The low end is there. No port noise for what I can tell. Heven't repositioned much to see If it changes the sound any. I'm sure it will. The Bass is keeping up with the sqwauker tap on 4 and the tweeter on 5. Goal #1 was met. The bass bin is working well and I am more impressed than I thought I would for a first run. However, I bet the low pass needs to be changed. I am thinking it need to be crossed lower such as a 2mH inductor with some parallel caps. I have an assortment of Solen caps. I have about 30 20uF caps that I could use in parallel. My thinking was to put in somewhere between 100uF and 200uF. The other option would be to leave the 2.5mH inductor and add some caps. To me, this value of an inductor would be the same as a 5mH for a 4 ohm bass bin. ISN'T THIS RIGHT?. Wasn't there one network where there was a 5mH inductor with some parallel caps? If my thinking is right...I need opinions here.....would be to emulate the 4mH inductor with the 100uF cap like in the AK-3. I would think the same idea for the 2 ohm bass bin would be to have a 2mH inductor with a 200uF cap in parallel. I NEED SUGGESTIONS HERE. PLEASE CORRECT MY THINKING IF WRONG. In a bit I'm gonna hook up a Corwall for the other channel. It has a Type B-3 network. This low pass have a 4mH inductor with a 70uF cap in parallel. I say again....very pleased so far. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 OK, it's official. This setup is great. I don't think I will need to do that much tweaking after all. I hooked up a Cornwall to the other channel. The "openess" is way better on the K401...no surprise. The bass response is phenomenal on the dbb. It could be a volume thing since the dual setup will have a higher db response. I put on some Lil' Jon to test some bass "slam". You know some "Crunk". Anyway, the corner with the dbb is really bumpin compared to the Cornwall side. When I look at the K33s on the dbb, they aren't even moving. I think I need a bigger room. For me to challenge the woofer excursion, I would need to put hearing protection on. I get to a certain volume and the room is just too full of music. I can't tolerate anymore volume. Very impressed. Would still like to hear ideas on the low pass options. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 JC, You might want to also play with putting the woofers in series. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 From what I understand, the series won't add db. However, the crossover for the lows will be much lower. I guess it's worth a try. I need to look this up. Bob, the mid is so "open". Do you think this is the "A" network coming into play here. You make/rebuild lots of these and wonder what other people think of their sound. I'm hoping the "thinness" I'm hearing is the cap I have. Quick lesson for me here. If I decide to attenuate the tweeter some....say put on tap 4, will this do anything to the midrange? Also, Is there a problem putting both taps at #4? Do you sell the parts needed for a AK-3....mainly the high pass stuff? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 1:21:44 PM jwcullison wrote: OK, it's official. This setup is great. I don't think I will need to do that much tweaking after all. I hooked up a Cornwall to the other channel. The "openess" is way better on the K401...no surprise. The bass response is phenomenal on the dbb. It could be a volume thing since the dual setup will have a higher db response. I put on some Lil' Jon to test some bass "slam". You know some "Crunk". Anyway, the corner with the dbb is really bumpin compared to the Cornwall side. When I look at the K33s on the dbb, they aren't even moving. I think I need a bigger room. For me to challenge the woofer excursion, I would need to put hearing protection on. I get to a certain volume and the room is just too full of music. I can't tolerate anymore volume. Very impressed. Would still like to hear ideas on the low pass options. jc ---------------- JC, can you connect a CS for the other channel and compare the dbb to somthing that has a K401? TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Terry, Yes I am. The only thing with that setup is the crossover being an ALK "B" with a crossing of 600hZ at low pass. The sound is great but less apples to apples. Right now I have them running in the same room but not comparing channel right to left. They are Zone A and B coming from the same source and same volume. However, the CS is hooked to a $3800 McIntosh MC252 and the dbb is hooked to a 1989 Carver. The solo dbb holds it's own with the bass. The sound from the K401 of the CS is different than the one running on the Type "A". Not as "open" and a little more "recessed". However, the CS is more "warm" and "softer". I think this is all from differences in network design. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 1:44:31 PM jwcullison wrote: From what I understand, the series won't add db. However, the crossover for the lows will be much lower. I guess it's worth a try. I need to look this up. Bob, the mid is so "open". Do you think this is the "A" network coming into play here. You make/rebuild lots of these and wonder what other people think of their sound. I'm hoping the "thinness" I'm hearing is the cap I have. Quick lesson for me here. If I decide to attenuate the tweeter some....say put on tap 4, will this do anything to the midrange? Also, Is there a problem putting both taps at #4? Do you sell the parts needed for a AK-3....mainly the high pass stuff? jc ---------------- JC, The mid will be 3 db "hotter" with the type A compared to the Cornscala crossover you built before. That should be what is needed to match up with the bass if you do get 3 db more out of the dual woofers. As far as running the tweet and midrange off the same tap, have to think about that one. If you have a K-77 lying around, you might try it instead of the on you are using now to see if levels match up better. Yes, I have everything to build the AK-3 networks. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 The top end parts on the AK-3 are 13uf's for the midrange with a 5mh coil and three 2uf's for the tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 The caps would be easy for me to pick out. However, curious on the inductors on the high pass. Do people usually use Solen for these or are there other options? Also, are the inductors air core? I would also assume that the inductors on the high pass don't have to be all that high grade. I would think you money would need to go into the caps in series. Also, do you have to use the T4A autoformer. Could you use the T2A? I would think that you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 JC, I have had the inductors for the AK-3 duplicated. You would need to use the 3636 autotransformer which I also have available. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Starting to look like a JBL theater speaker (also with dual 15" and horn): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 9:50:31 PM psg wrote: Starting to look like a JBL theater speaker (also with dual 15" and horn): http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/JBL_4675A.jpg"> ---------------- Hardly. Not sure what I'm looking at in the photo. Above the bass bin. Is that an umbrella? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 6:43:21 PM DeanG wrote: Nevermind. ---------------- Deano, Thanks for not........ Best regards to Deb, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:22:55 PM IB Slammin wrote: ---------------- On 7/9/2005 9:50:31 PM psg wrote: Starting to look like a JBL theater speaker (also with dual 15" and horn): http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/JBL_4675A.jpg"> ---------------- Hardly. Not sure what I'm looking at in the photo. Above the bass bin. Is that an umbrella? Terry ---------------- Elephant cheeks horn. Only the tweeter has the babycheeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Marvel, I refreshed my memory of the isobarik cabinets. I guess there would be a way to "tune" it like the K33 is in a Cornewall. I would need to get a better book dedicated to that kind of cabinet making. It would make the cabinet smaller. However, I don't feel the cabinet size here is a problem. I think my biggest problem is figuring out exactly what the 2 ohm baas bin load does to the performance on the "rest" of the network. It's gonna cost me some "wasting" of money to experiment with this. I already have plans to tweak the setup. I will be ordering some parts. I will probably tweak with 1st order networks first since it involves less parts. djk actually posted a good suggestion of how to set this up well but I haven't noticed him around in awhile. Interested in knowing his thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/10/2005 5:57:17 AM Marvel wrote: ---------------- On 7/9/2005 10:22:55 PM IB Slammin wrote: ---------------- On 7/9/2005 9:50:31 PM psg wrote: Starting to look like a JBL theater speaker (also with dual 15" and horn): http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/JBL_4675A.jpg"> ---------------- Hardly. Not sure what I'm looking at in the photo. Above the bass bin. Is that an umbrella? Terry ---------------- Elephant cheeks horn. Only the tweeter has the babycheeks. ---------------- Thanks Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 I listened to the Cornscala dbb for several hours. I made one tweak which was an improvement. I added another inductor or low pass so that each woofer had an inductor on its own. This would probably change the crossover point of the low pass. The sound is better. The midrange before seemed as if it was missing something. There is plenty of low end. I still think the drivers are "balanced". I just may leave it like this and upgrade the 13uF cap. IBSlammin. You were right. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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