Kevin S Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 I thought this might be of some interest to Heresy owners. Decided to do some subwoofer level adjustments and take a few measurements at my listening position. My room is 20 X 24. I sit about 14 feet from the front speakers. They are about 21 inches from the front wall(which is the short wall) and 6 feet from the side walls. They sit on the floor on Klipsch slant risers. Using a Stereophile test CD and a Radio Shack SPL meter, here is how the front Heresy's measured on their own, with my processor set to "large" fronts and all other speakers set to "off": 1khz: 80db 200hz: 72db 160hz: 70db 125hz: 78db 100hz: 80db 80hz: 74db 63hz: 72db 50hz: what 50 hz? I think this lack of bass when positioned out from room boundries may explain why many people think Heresy's sound "bright". I did not take the time to move them against the wall or in the corners. Frankly, this is the worst measured vs specified response of any speakers I have had in my room. Including Klipschorns, Cornwalls and LaScalas. I know I am not measuring exactly like the factory, but I have never owned a set of speakers that measured so far off of their specs at my listening position. Even my former Maggie MMG's measured flat to 63 hz and were only about 5 db down at 50. And people say they have "no bass". Luckily, with the subs, I get 25hz about 4 db down (76 db) relative to 1khz, and 31.5, 40, and 50 & 80hz all flat (80db). 63hz is about 5 db up (85db). So with the subs I actually end up with fairly deep, and very smooth bass response. Since I had always planned to use the subs with the Heresy's, and my processor's rolloff is 80 hz, the Heresy's poor bass performance really doesn't matter for me. But I thought others might find it interesting. As always, your speakers in your room will vary from mine, so do not take this as gospel, just something to think about. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Kevin, Don't have the Heresy's but found your information very useful. Was wondering where I might find a test CD such as that? I would like to do the same for my Chorus'... Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted September 20, 2001 Author Share Posted September 20, 2001 I use Sterophile Test CD #1, which I purchased years ago, but I believe you can still find it at Stereophile.com under "recordings". ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 www.partsexpress.com Do a search on part number 510-230 Keith This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 09-20-2001 at 09:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Interesting observations to be sure. I have noticed a hole in my sound before without ever testing it out (no spl meter - just ears). Its not just that the figures roll off - your figures are all over the place. I think mine must be less dramatically off than that (room and cables probably mask some of what you are experiencing). Must get me an spl and have a play. Who knows - I may even get a sub thereafter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 MaxG It has been my experience that meaurements at the listening position have a much larger frequency response deviation than most of the measurements that manufacturers make or that are found in audio magazines. And that my ears are amazingly accepting of these deviations. This has been true of all of the speakers I have owned and all of the rooms I have measured in. Also I have found that speakers are much smoother thru the range of 500hz to 10khz at the listening position than they are outside of that range. The response in the area of 63hz up to 500hz seems to be the area of the widest deviations. So I use my ears to achieve the imaging and midrange/high end balance I want, but use meaurements to determine placements for the bass response of the main speakers and subwoofers. Experience has even narrowed this down considerably because I have found that bass response up to 80 hz or so is much smoother when the sub(s) are placed in the corner(s). And the 63 to 500hz area mentioned above smooths out when the main speakers are away from the walls as much as possible. Also I have found that when tuning bass by ear, I have ended up with boosted levels in the 63 to 100 hz range and depressed levels below 50hz. I guess my ears are more sensitive in that range. When compared to the bass balance after measuring, my "by ear" bass is much boomier and less detailed. So in general, when setting up my speakers, or those of a friend, I start out: 1. Main speakers as far into the room as practical, toed in to minimize side reflections, mid range driver at about ear height, and no farther apart than the listeners distance from them. 2. Subwoofer (if using one) in the corner. 3. Measure the bass and adjust sub (or main speaker placement if no sub) for smoothest output from 40hz to 80hz, fine tune toe in and speaker seperation by ear. Doing this I have found that you can get amazingly good sound out of about any set of speakers. Most lousy sounding speakers are a result of lousy room/speaker interactions due to set up, IMHO. Sorry, I know you didn't ask for all this info. I just got on a roll! ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 "And the 63 to 500hz area mentioned above smooths out when the main speakers are away from the walls as much as possible" Have heard this many times and can understand it in a Bass Reflex speaker, but in a sealed unit like the Heresy it is beyond me to understand why that should make a difference. FYI - my speakers are about 18 inches from the rear wall. This is a recent fairly up to date picture of the system for reference (ignore the zoom in on the amps - they were new at the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 I think it matters regardless of speaker type because I believe that bass frequencies are omnidirectional and therefore wrap around the enclosure and reflect off of the walls, floors etc. This is why you get a bass boost by placing the speakers on the floor, closer to the wall or in a corner. The more room boundries involved, the greater the boost. Naturally all of this changes the speakers overall interaction with the room and causes more or less deviation at certain frequencies depending on the speaker and room. If I do not have this 100% correct, I am sure someone will correct me. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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