jhawk92 Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 All- Ok, here is a question for the techies in the group. Wife and I jumped on the digital cable bandwagon a couple of months ago. Overall, not a bad experience, but not quite as pleasant as we thought. At any rate, we are experiencing quite a bit of signal degradation, such that we get some pretty lousy pictures at times. We have the one main cable line into the house, and we have all 4 bedrooms, the family room, and the kitchen wired, but currently only have TVs in the family room, kitchen and MBR. The kitchen/MBR signals run straight from the wall to the TV (MBR has a pretty long cable run), but the family room runs from the wall, into the digital decoder, to the VCR, and finally to the TV. My question is if there are any good amplifiers I can buy (Rat Shack or other manufacturer) that would help boost the signal and about how much they are? Thanks for all the help. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Just what kind of "signal degradation" are you experiencing? Do you mean digital artifacts (picture breaking up into mosaics, occational freezes) or do you mean noisy / low quality signal in the "analog" sense (snow, ghosts, etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toots mutant Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 If his "digital cable" experience is like mine, the first n channels (where channel number is less than 100) are actually analog, which is why running the cable directly from the outlet into the TV set ever has a chance of working. The digital channels are only accessible via cable box, and are less susceptible to signal degradation, as you'd expect. I would not put a signal booster or amp on the line unless you're absolutely sure that it's a signal strength problem. You'll find that most distribution amps and/or amplified splitters do more to harm picture quality than help. But, if you absolutely have to, I've had extremely good luck with the following (which isn't cheap). Follow the URL for description. I bought mine from that vendor, although people have told me that the same model can be had for less money elsewhere. http://www.smarthome.com/7750A.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Rat Shack has a pretty good +10 dB in line amp. I've even used 2 in series powered with one power supply with good results. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 12, 2001 Author Share Posted February 12, 2001 Ray- My problems are on the analog channels that Toots has so eloquently mentioned. There is more snow/ghosts/etc that I would like. Toots is right, all the analog channels are the ones below channel 100, which is kind of false advertising; I signed up for great picture clarity, but I am not getting it. The digital channels have great picture, but there usually isn't that much that I want to see on DIY, or History International, etc. Toots- Thanks for the link, I'll go and check it out. Why wouldn't you work with a booster? does it make that much impact? One thing I haven't done is to complain to the cable folks, to see if there is anything they can do for starters. John- Ok, thanks, we have one down the street, so I'll take a look this week and see what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toots mutant Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Well, the device I pointed you at IS a booster. Or a distribution amp or an amplified splitter. Same diff in my book. Like I said, I'm just hesitant to use them. If your coming-into-the-house unsplit signal looks ok, and after splitting, it looks lousy, then this sort of widget will be the thing for you. Otherwise, you may just be harming the signal. The one I gave a pointer to is the FIRST distribution amp that I've ever been happy with. My experience with the Radio Shack models is that they generally introduce a ton of noise, over-amplify the lower frequencies while shredding the higher frequencies. I think the Radio Shack model does do an adequate job of propping a door open, though. I'm not saying that the one I pointed at is the only decent model, because I'm sure there are others out there. I am saying that some of the cheaper distribution amps out there are designed poorly and show it. And one other advantage to the model I showed: I can personally vouch for the fact that it passes the digital channels (from wall to amp to cable box) just fine. I don't know if the others don't; just know that this one does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 jhawk, (how bout them cyclones i have the same problem w/ time warner. my guess is that the cable cos. are sacrficing their limited bandwidth for the analog channels to get better results w/ their digital channels. even time warner suggests now if u have 3 or more tvs to use that amplifier. don't know if i'll go to the trouble now or wait for them to get better though. good luck. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-15 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 speak wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 13, 2001 Author Share Posted February 13, 2001 Toots- Ok, thanks for the advice. I will do some more digging around and see. That's really what I was searching for...personal testimonials from real people who use these products. Thanks! Boa- Ouch. Now you ruined my day That was a tough game...I hope with you in KS that you are a KU fan and not an ISU fan... Guess the cable folks have us over a barrel...if we don't want to pay the extra for a dish, then we get stuck with lousy quality. That's just a bunch to have to spend (especially on satellite equipment) and still not get "local" stations without forking over another $5-10 for that. Hopefully someone will figure out this HDTV thing before long and the consumer will get a product worthy of all the hype. For now, I'll stick with my 27" ProScan, lousy cable, and put the money into DVDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 sorry jhawk - i'm a displaced cyclone & i'm even dating an MU girl good game though & i'm worried about this sat. if i get that cable amp i'll let u know. the cable co. wants to sell 1 to me for $40 installed. you'd think that would work good, but ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 jayhawk92 - Your problem is deja vu all over again for me. I had the exact same thing as you. What perplexed me was that I was in a brand new house with premium coax cabling (supplied my own stuff), the main feed cable was brand new stuff (we're in a new phase of the development), and I had upgraded all my video connection cables. So what could possibly be wrong? As an aside, I have six outlets total, but only have four activated at the house junction box. During the initial cable hook-up, the installer mentioned that after splitting the cable four ways (i.e. activating outlets five & six), there would be a signal loss enough to result in a bad picture. So, we only activated four. Anyhow, I called the cable company (COMCAST) and agreed to meet a tech. He checked the signal inside the house at all the outlets and at the junction block outside. His conclusion was that the signal strength to the house was TOO HIGH. Said that with new TV's, too strong a signal will cause a snowy, grainy picture - especially on channels 2-30. The solution (which he couldn't do) was to throttle back the downstream amplifier on the main trunk line. This was done a few days later and, for the most part, all is fine. In short <whew>, I'd call your cable company. It appears that they have tweaks they can do depending on what kinda picture problems you're having. Hope this helps. Tom Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 another thing to look for is that they only have 1 splitter & it's a 1000mhz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 sorry keep thinking here, but also, if you're not already doing w/ the digital box, u may want to use line rca connections to the vcr & then to tv. for audio, i also use a digital coax connection from the box digital out to the receiver dig coax in (which of course only works on the digital channels). these boxes open up a whole new world of connection options - have fun ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 21, 2001 Author Share Posted February 21, 2001 Tom- Yep, sounds like we have the same kinda problem. Our house is in new subdivision, good cable, only 4 outlets activated (though cable modem comes next month), upgraded interconnects, etc. Thanks for the advice there, when the cable modem guy comes out in mid-March, I'll have him check the output levels. My TV is a '93 vintage ProScan 27". While not up to today's luxury standards, I am still pleased with it, and will hang onto it until I figure out what I want from HDTV. Boa- AND dating a girl from MU??? Well at least you are keeping it in the Big 12 family! I had thought about working some digital coax cables, but I spend more time on the analog channels and want that signal to get better first. From what I remember, there are only coax connections on the back of the digital box, so the RCA thing wouldn't work. Thanks for your additional thoughts though, I think this whole thing will be a work in progress until I find the tweaks that work. And by that time, HDTV will be ready and I can do it all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 jhawk, yea can't wait for the big 12 tourney party in a few weeks here. which digital box do u have? no digital out & analog audio/video/s-video jacks? if not u may want to ask the cableco if u can get a box that has like the ScientificAtlanta Explorer. the digital out works great w/ my receiver for the digital channels. was even (once) able to get DD5.1 surround from Civil Acion w/ my 3-day free preview of the starz channel. go clones!(then KU) ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted February 26, 2001 Author Share Posted February 26, 2001 Boa- After further review, looks like I have the same SA Explorer box you do; all the digital, s-video, etc outs that I could need. But I stick with coax for now until more stations start broadcasting in 5.1. As far as the Big 12 tourney goes, looks like KU will have something to prove over your 'clones. Bet you and the g/f have great arguments as to who to root for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 26, 2001 Share Posted February 26, 2001 jhawk, i'll try to go w/ positive karma & only root for the clones to win sure I can't convince u? i just picked up a Rat Shack $10 gold cable & hooked up that digital out from the box. just w/ dolby prologic it sounds pretty good & better than using the analog audio outs. the sub sounds a lot better 2. as I only have 1 dig coax in on my receiver though I did have to change the dvd to an optical connect. so I guess it really cost me $50 total but still think it's worth it. ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener Posted February 26, 2001 Share Posted February 26, 2001 Here are a few other things to consider. Are your lines run in series, or are they star wired from a central point? If they are in series, then each additional run from one room to the next degrades the signal. When I ran my cable, I come in from the street directly to an amp, then to an 8 way splitter. I have the same signal strength in each room as they have at the pole outside, with no noticeable signal degradation. Make sure your splitter/amp will support 1hz to 1Mhz. Passive splitters will degrade a signal as well. Not that an amp and a splitter will not, but on long runs an amp with a splitter is preferred. Cheap surge protection equipment will do all sorts of ugly things to your cable signal in the analog space. Remove all of them on a nice sunny day and see if your signal improves. Minimize the number of mechanical interconnects if possible. In my house, I run from the pole to my amp inside the house directly with a single cable. Actually it hits a central surge suppressor, then it hits the amp. Point being, if you can eliminate a connection of two separate coax cables, do it. Make sure that you are using the same cable type for all of your connections. I make my own, so I know they are all the same with good connectors. Impedance mismatching can cause problems when you mix different kinds of cable/manufacturers. Also 90 degree bends or greater have been known to reflect the signal back down the cable in data communications, the same probably applies here. Use Caig pro gold on all of your connections to get the best contact. The amp I use is by Augat. It is the same mfg that Time Warner uses locally. I bribed mine out of the cable guy with a couple of beers. I am not sure if it is available in retail, it may be commercial only. Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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