NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 "Another over simplified description of the task." No, it isn't. Rebuilding a piece of gear to the stock circuit is nothing more them swapping out parts. An OHM meter will catch bad solder connections in most cases. Besides, once someone learns to solder it becomes very obvious when there is a cold solder joint. Shawn Once again dictating from the cheap seats. My points are absolute proven facts when you have the experience of working on countless kit amps built in the hay day of electronics DIY'ing. It's just not that simple not everyone has the natural ability to take to this type of work. By the way last week it was lets go anal and do everything possible to safe guard from electrical shock to limit the least possible chance to experiencing 120VAC electrocution. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry should start poking around inside amps with 400+ absolutely dangerous voltage............... Changing like the wind to serve are purposes are we...... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Craig said" "Now every Tom, Dick and Harry should start poking around inside amps with 400+ absolutely dangerous voltage............... Changing like the wind to serve are purposes are we......" HEY, I resemble that remark! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I'm pretty good with an iron--certainly no artist, but I learned as a young pup with my Dad builiding Heath stuff. Later I used this ability to work on old amps and preamps. But I HATE doing it. The last time I had a soldering iron in my hand was when I built a set of ALK networks with Jensen PIO caps for my Cornwalls a little over a year ago. Even that was a chore and it only took one day from start to installation. It's like anything else. I am also really good at hanging sheetrock and plastering--but I HATE doing that as well. I'm a helluva tile setter and I like doing that OK as long as someone else floats for me first. And I am a bloody NATURAL at plumbing--I repiped my entire house in copper about ten years ago. Today I would hire someone to do it. SInce I can afford $35/hour I'd rather pay Craig to go though an amp for me and play golf while he solders. He's BETTER at it than I will ever be because I HATE doing it!! If someone wants to do a DIY project becuase they are truly FASCINATED by the prospect and are willing to bury themselves in learning everything they can, then I think they should be encouraged. If, on the other hand, they are only trying to save some money by building or repairing an amp themselves and have no real interest or affinity, then I would say "forget it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Allan, you probably didn't try hard enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 SInce I can afford $35/hour I'd rather pay Craig to go though an amp for me and play golf while he solders. He's BETTER at it than I will ever be because I HATE doing it!! Allan, Did you just give me one heck of a raise? If my wife reads this thread I'm in big trouble! She is absolutely convinced I make about $4 an hour with all things considered. But seriously just to not give the wrong impression I do not charge by the hour. If it was actually worked out I bet I make about $20 an hour when actually soldering. If you factor in the rest of the job that shrinks fast. But I enjoy the other aspects so much I don't think of it that way. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Erik -- I never said people shouldn't give it a shot on their own. Enouraging DIY isn't what I have an issue with. What I have an issue with is doing it in a flippant manner with no caveats. There's more to DIY than the soldering -- that was my other point. I've never received an email from someone asking me how to make a solder joint. I myself have received a lot of outside help with what I do, and the significant time spent with Al and Bob on the phone hasn't been spent talking about soldering. I love to share what I've been taught with others, but not much of what I've been "taught" has much to do with the actual building of a network. Sharing what I know about various filter designs and the acoustic results with each isn't the same as running a training course on building networks via email -- which is exactly what happened the last time you went on one of these 'DIY networks are easy' rants. Since you do this kind of thing without having to deal with the repercussions, and often voice concerns regarding irresponsible and thoughtless behavior here on the forum -- you might want to consider the position you put me in when you start "encouraging".It is just amusing that some who are discouraging people from learning how to swap out resistors and capacitors are those making money swapping out resistors and capacitors. Funny how that works.What's not so amusing is when I get an email from someone who has lifted the foil off their PCB, snapped one of the plastic standoffs that hold the PCB to the terminal cup, or melted the insulation off the wire in their autotransformer. Look, as far as I know I'm the only one here who has actually taken the time to post a thread going into detail on how to actually do the work. No one here is trying to discourage anyone from doing anything. What we are discouraging is going forward if you don't have the aptitude, or haven't taken the time to practice and educate yourself. I think it's the combination of the skill and knowledge that make for a pleasent DIY experience. I think Craig has other concerns. The first time I lost a bias resistor in one of my QUAD amps, Craig was walking me through the fix on the telephone. I knew exactly what he was talking about while he was explaining things, and I knew exactly what I was doing while I was desoldering the resistor so I could put the new one in. I was being very careful -- and still got my *** zapped. We joke about it, but it was freaking very unpleasent. I wonder why I didn't get killed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Me in 9th grade! cool! Awkward teenager who loved to play drums and listen to music. Thanks, KH! Have a good Saturday, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 "Erik -- I never said people shouldn't give it a shot on their own. Enouraging DIY isn't what I have an issue with. What I have an issue with is doing it in a flippant manner with no caveats." Dean, of most guys on this forum, I was the one who was always poking my head in when safety issues came up regarding modifications. People were told to change this cap or that cap, without ever mentioning some of those things can hold a charge strong enough to be dangerous. Not a filppant manner in the least -- it's called encouragement, silly. If someone can tie his or her shoes, they can learn to solder. It's been made out on this forum to be some dark and special skill, reserved for the very few who are able to master the rare art. Nonsense. It's easy, and people should learn the basics, just like a teenager should before learning to drive. If someone cares enough to learn -- and not give up because of a couple of cold joints -- easy as pie (actually, I think the original phrase was "easy as eating pie"). One forum member once called me and said his soldering 'sucked' and that he couldn't get the stuff do melt worth a damn. Well, acid core solder is really nasty stuff to begin with, and the melting point of what he was using was 3,000 degrees or more (yes, actually I am exaggerating). I told him to go to Radio Shack and get some of their cheap but good 60/40 rosin core (probably made by Kester), and he called back and said he couldn't believe how easy it was. He thought all those cool and smooth looking joints people made had to do with special iron skill and sensitivity, which is totally wrong. The iron stays put, the joint gets hot, the solder is applied to the joint (not the iron) and it takes care of the rest, flowing easily and smoothly around the joint enough to hold it -- and then no more. Everytime I have encouraged people to try soldering in the past, guess who arrives on the scene to tell them 'it's not so straightforward'? Sure it is, but just like any new thing, one has to get the hang of it and be patient with one's own inexperience with the newness. When I go see my mom, I'll take a picture of this little animal creature I soldered together. I called it Turtle-Bug. The soldering looks like hell, but it's at least pretty shiny and not 'cold'! It's a funny looking thing. Just like learning to drive, one can learn the safety issues, which I have always said are extremely important. Heck, one recently referred to newbie DIY project included certain brands of beer that might be good to be kept on the side during the building process. IMO, that's completely crazy. I think since then a certain disclaimer was included, which took care of that. Good. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 You wiener, did you even read my post? Why do you keep talking about soldering? BTW, it's not as "straight-forward" as you make it sound. http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm http://www.techsupportalert.com/search/p0621.pdf http://www.elecraft.com/TechNotes/Ask_Dr_Solder.html http://www.mediacollege.com/misc/solder/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 "Erik -- I never said people shouldn't give it a shot on their own. Enouraging DIY isn't what I have an issue with. What I have an issue with is doing it in a flippant manner with no caveats." Dean, of most guys on this forum, I was the one who was always poking my head in when safety issues came up regarding modifications. People were told to change this cap or that cap, without ever mentioning some of those things can hold a charge strong enough to be dangerous. Not a filppant manner in the least -- it's called encouragement, silly. If someone can tie his or her shoes, they can learn to solder. It's been made out on this forum to be some dark and special skill, reserved for the very few who are able to master the rare art. Nonsense. It's easy, and people should learn the basics, just like a teenager should before learning to drive. If someone cares enough to learn -- and not give up because of a couple of cold joints -- easy as pie (actually, I think the original phrase was "easy as eating pie"). One forum member once called me and said his soldering 'sucked' and that he couldn't get the stuff do melt worth a damn. Well, acid core solder is really nasty stuff to begin with, and the melting point of what he was using was 3,000 degrees or more (yes, actually I am exaggerating). I told him to go to Radio Shack and get some of their cheap but good 60/40 rosin core (probably made by Kester), and he called back and said he couldn't believe how easy it was. He thought all those cool and smooth looking joints people made had to do with special iron skill and sensitivity, which is totally wrong. The iron stays put, the joint gets hot, the solder is applied to the joint (not the iron) and it takes care of the rest, flowing easily and smoothly around the joint enough to hold it -- and then no more. Everytime I have encouraged people to try soldering in the past, guess who arrives on the scene to tell them 'it's not so straightforward'? Sure it is, but just like any new thing, one has to get the hang of it and be patient with one's own inexperience with the newness. When I go see my mom, I'll take a picture of this little animal creature I soldered together. I called it Turtle-Bug. The soldering looks like hell, but it's at least pretty shiny and not 'cold'! It's a funny looking thing. Just like learning to drive, one can learn the safety issues, which I have always said are extremely important. Heck, one recently referred to newbie DIY project included certain brands of beer that might be good to be kept on the side during the building process. IMO, that's completely crazy. I think since then a certain disclaimer was included, which took care of that. Good. Erik Yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn once again. Same old bullsh!t. There is more to DIY then simply soldering. Its obvious to me that you simple have very little idea of the finer points when comes to this type of work and would rather stay "blind" to the facts and keep using your old trusty "Multi Meter" and those golden ears to tell you the complete story. I think I'm just going to do the smart thing and ignore your silly posts for a while. Craig PS this subject is all yours Dean...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Weenie is a very sensitive guy, and it angers and saddens him that everyone isn't just as sensitive as he. An admitted male feminist, Weenie is ever vigilant against anti-progressive attitudes. Though he seldom comes into personal contact with the working classes, he keenly feels the pain of their oppression nonetheless . Weenie's chief antagonists are Troglodyte, Evil Clown, Capitalista and sometimes Ideologue. Because of his natural petulance Weenie can easily be goaded into battle, but he is encumbered by a tendency to throw temper tantrums when severely pressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Well, I at least want to see the Turtle Bug. At that age I was pretty much just into Major Matt Mason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I just ran out and got a new box of toothpicks and some Elmers. Nobody has told me yet if Gorilla Glue is better. It looks worse. Will it sound better? Craig, it doesn't seem like it was very long ago that you were learning all of this. Your work is outstanding now, but you had to start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I just ran out and got a new box of toothpicks and some Elmers. Nobody has told me yet if Gorilla Glue is better. It looks worse. Will it sound better? Craig, it doesn't seem like it was very long ago that you were learning all of this. Your work is outstanding now, but you had to start somewhere. Marvel, first off I started working with Solder, Caps and resistors when I was a young child that is why the audio aspect of this is a natural for me...... Now please don't let Eric and Shawn's constant attempt to make it look like a few of us here have something against someone inclined to DIY none of us do. All of us going back in forth with Eric and Shawn are just stating that IT IS DEFINITLY NOT FOR EVERYONE. It's almost laughable when they try to portray this as some type of monitary motivation. I have helped countless people through there DIY rebuilds and repairs. I just made a very good thread with pictures on rebuilding a C22 that anyone so inclined could use to do that preamp from these pictures and foot notes. Yes I believe the thread will also garnish me some business and its also being placed on my website. Right now I'm walking a guy through email to compeltely overhaul is 299D amplifier. I just pick and choose who to help on the impression I get about there knowledge and abilities(should of never helped old Dean). It absolutely takes more then a soldering iron and the guts to change out a few random parts to rebuild or build electronics properly. Not to bash your little ST70 DIYer amp but I would be willing to bet my time that if I had it here I could improve it to "your ears" simply from my knowledge, abilities and the proper tools to tweak and fine tune it. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Not to bash your little ST70 DIYer amp but I would be willing to bet my time that if I had it here I could improve it to "your ears" simply from my knowledge, abilities and the proper tools to tweak and fine tune it. Craig You are probably correct. There are other things I want to do with this amp as well, but time, money and more important things are using my time at the moment. But your comment is one of the most arrogant thing I've heard on here yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Not to bash your little ST70 DIYer amp but I would be willing to bet my time that if I had it here I could improve it to "your ears" simply from my knowledge, abilities and the proper tools to tweak and fine tune it. Craig You are probably correct. There are other things I want to do with this amp as well, but time, money and more important things are using my time at the moment. But your comment is one of the most arrogant thing I've heard on here yet. You welcome to take it that way if you want..... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Bruce, he's not arrogant, he's just really confident. He knows the stupid things backwards, forwards, and upside down. He is a butthead though. If you want it to stay together forever use Gorilla Glue. If you want it to stay together almost forever and look good too -- use Tribond. For toothpicks I think Elmers is a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieHeartKlipsch Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I want to to use this opportunity to thank you to Erick for his encouragement of me in assembling my own amp. . . . . I have never soldered before but really had no problem other then putting a scorch mark in my workbench-top. It is two amplifiers for depending on my mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Craig, You need to stop posting and get some work done. You're really pissing people off today.[] Nice thread guys. Just as I was beginning to feel better, I logged on and read through this. Now my temp is back up to 101. Thanks a lot.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOS Valves Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Craig, You need to stop posting and get some work done. You're really pissing people off today.[] Nice thread guys. Just as I was beginning to feel better, I logged on and read through this. Now my temp is back up to 101. Thanks a lot.[] Gary, your delerious with fever and its burning your brain cells go to bed[] This is the most fun I've had around here in a year or more. But some people do make it a yaaaaaaawwwwwwwn at times. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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