RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I'm looking at the Denon PMA-2000IVR stereo integrated amplifier to possibly power my RF-7's (when I get them) It has 80W RMS per channel into 2-channels, is that enough for the 7's? Dr. Who was telling me the RF-7's have a nasty impedance dip that makes them require a ton of power to perform well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Most solid state amps can drive a speaker like the RF-7 without too much trouble. The test report from sound and vision ( I think, anyways, I don't have that issue here ) showed that the impedance dips down to 2.8 ohms at one point, however the nominal impedace they rated as a 6 ohm impedance. Having extra power is like having a car with a powerful engine, it idles around nicely, but you can pass almost anything on the road. With that being said, most of the time ( at normal conversational levels ) you may be using 1-2 watts, the rest is headroom. Unless you have an extremely large space, sit a long way away from the speakers, I am sure that 80 watts should suffice, for most all situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 HOLY CRAP The Denon PMA-2000IVR is HUGE!!! 20" deep, 7.1" high, and 55lbs, that's massive for an 80w x2 amp. 20" deep, that might be hard to mount hahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 hey now... I didn't say a lot of power was needed....just that linear impedance tracking was needed...something like the Crown K2's which just happen to put out 1500 watts into 2 ohms (which is only 375 watts into 8ohms). [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 hey now... I didn't say a lot of power was needed....just that linear impedance tracking was needed...something like the Crown K2's which just happen to put out 1500 watts into 2 ohms (which is only 375 watts into 8ohms). [] Ok now you are confusing the heck out of me, what the heck is linear impedance tracking? Does that Denon have it? Cause it looks like a really good integrated amp for the money. Good reviews on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Another forum member, jpm, had that same Denon amp on his RF-7s. He did not like the sound. He now has a Carver ZR-1600 and likes the sound much better. The Denon could not handle the impedance dip. The Carver has much more power and has the ability to handle the impedance dip. We went round and round with jpm trying to convince him he needed more power on the RF-7s. He is a believer now. The threads are under the 2 channel forum. They are worth the read before you buy the Denon. They may save you a great deal of trouble. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 Another forum member, jpm, had that same Denon amp on his RF-7s. He did not like the sound. He now has a Carver ZR-1600 and likes the sound much better. The Denon could not handle the impedance dip. The Carver has much more power and has the ability to handle the impedance dip. We went round and round with jpm trying to convince him he needed more power on the RF-7s. He is a believer now. The threads are under the 2 channel forum. They are worth the read before you buy the Denon. They may save you a great deal of trouble. Bill Thanks for the heads up Do you know if the Rotel RB-1080 would beable to power them well? http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rb1080.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 RTTR, Here is the thread that may be of interest.: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/585074/ShowPost.aspx The Rotel 1080 is excellent, but the 1090 is better on the RF-7s. Rotel is discontinuing the RB 1090 and replacing it with the 1091 snd 1092. The Carver Pro ZR 1600 has all the power you need. Any qualty SS amp with 200 watts or more that also has a clean first watt will do the trick. Tube amps need less power, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The 1080 does an excellent job of powering the 7's both for ht and 2 channel. All the way from quiet listening up to deafening levels, and used ones can be had on a-gon for around the 750 mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockbobmel Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The 1080 does an excellent job of powering the 7's both for ht and 2 channel. All the way from quiet listening up to deafening levels, and used ones can be had on a-gon for around the 750 mark. One Up !!!! I have only tried these speaks witha Rotel 3 x 150 amp and an Arcam 100 x 2, and he Rotel 1080 200 x 2. They have a lot of everything with this amp.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 MrMcGoo is right. I'm now a firm believer in more power (Carver ZR1600), at least for SS. I normally listen to my music rather quietly, and at these modest levels the sound is much fuller and more detailed than with the Denon PMA2000 integrated amp I had. Also much more so than with my Rega Maia 80 watt amp. When cranked, I simply cannot describe the enormous energy and gut-wrenching power this amp/speaker combo provide. It's something to hear. Do yourself a favor and DON'T underpower your RF7s. You'll never realize what a terrific speaker they really are if you do. They like power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 What sort of stereo preamps should I be looking at to power something like a Rotel 1080? Would the Rotel preamp be the best match for it? (obviously it would be looks wise) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I went with a British SS preamp... Rega. I think the British gear is "warmer" than most SS gear out there. Almost tube-like in sound. Same for Rega's cd player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockbobmel Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 What sort of stereo preamps should I be looking at to power something like a Rotel 1080? Would the Rotel preamp be the best match for it? (obviously it would be looks wise) I'm using an RSP-985 (2001). It is great for everything (Music and HT),except 6.1 or 7.1 and component vid in/out. I will prolly eventually get the RSP-1068 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Hey guys, RTTR is using a computer for the source of his audio so preamps with a digital input would be a better option...just something to think about. Also, bass management of some sort would be a huge plus too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTTR Posted October 13, 2005 Author Share Posted October 13, 2005 Are McIntosh amps really worth the hefty price tag? Also do NAD amps sound good driving Klipsch speakers, and would the C372 integrated amp with 150w RMS x2 into ohms satisfy me driving a pair of RF-7s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Quick question for the Carver ZR fans, has there been some redesign vs the older TFM's? I recently A/B- ed a TFM 24 with my RB-1080 and the sound was Noticably thinner. My rack is close to one of my 7's and when I swapped it over, Yikes! The sound thinned out immensley. No depth what so ever in comparison. I didn't A/B on purpose as I was checking something else out on the TFM. Also, in response to pre's, the RSP-1068 is a dandy for double duty (ht or 2 channel) @ its price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfectcircle25 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 The Denon 2000ivr is a very high quality integrated and will be more than enough power to drive the RF-7's. I donno were this idea that you need tons of power to drive these speakers, it simply not true. HYes they are not the easiest speaker to drive since they dip down to 3 ohms, but by no means are they an extremely difficult load. Alot of high end speakers do have some impeadance dips down to 2 or 3 ohms, not a big deal. As long as you get an amp with decent current capability and the ability to be stable into a 4 ohm load you will have no problem driving the RF-7's. A would say 25 wpc is a good minimum to drive the RF-7's in a small-mid sized room. Some of the best sound ive heard from the RF-7's were with a 25w and 30w amplifier(Sugden a21, Pass Aelph 30). Quality is far morew important the quantity with these speakers, they need very little watts to play loud but do need a good quality amp that can put out some current and drive lower impeadances. With all that said, depending on what your planning on spending I think you may be able to do better than the Denon which sells for around $1100 I believe? Heres a few ideas. NAD c372 $700: tons of power for an integrated amp and stable all the way down to 2ohms, this amp can rock! Maybe not the most refined but offers alot of power and sound quality for the money. Portal Panache $1295: Rumor has it that this amp was designed by the legendary Nelson Pass. Its basically a power amp with a volume pot and a few inputs, very minimalist integrated with a passive preamp section, 100w/200w into 8 or 4ohms, high current design, very good build quality. 60 money back trial period. Sim Audio I-5(used) $1200: Probably the best amp on the list all around, very smooth and natural sounding bur with great drive and PRaT, 70wpc can easily drive the RF-7's to extremely loud volumes and sound smooth doing so. Sugden a21(used) $1000: 25wpc class A British integrated, some of the smoothest sounds i ever heard from the RF-7 came from this amplifier, dont let its low power fool you it drove the RF-7's with no problem. Very musical amplifier, beautifuly smooth midrange. If you more interested in refined sound than rock concert loudness this is the one for you. A bit hard to find on the used market Creek 5350se $1500: Got a class A rating from stereophile, plenty of power 85wpc and current output 25A, very clean and detailed, midrange is among thebest ive heard at anywere near this price, does sound a bit dry though which may not be the best match for the Klipsch's, but definitly worth a listen. One of the best integrateds out there. These are just a few of the better integrateds around that I have heard personally with the RF-7's except the Portal Panache which I havent heard and the Creek which Ive heard but not with Klipsch. If you want power the NAD or Portal is the way to go, if you want smoothness and refinement the Sugden and SIm are the way to go and if you want something in the middle with good power and refinement the Creek may be your ticket. There are also alot of other integrateds out there that are very good as well. Check out integrateds from Musical Fidelity, Arcam, Unison, Pathos, Audio Analogue, Plinius, Rotel, Bryston, Naim...etc Good luck and happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Quick question for the Carver ZR fans, has there been some redesign vs the older TFM's? I recently A/B- ed a TFM 24 with my RB-1080 and the sound was Noticably thinner. My rack is close to one of my 7's and when I swapped it over, Yikes! The sound thinned out immensley. No depth what so ever in comparison. I didn't A/B on purpose as I was checking something else out on the TFM. Also, in response to pre's, the RSP-1068 is a dandy for double duty (ht or 2 channel) @ its price point. Dunno. You can check it out for yourself here - http://www.carverpro.com/ My amp is anything, but thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Are McIntosh amps really worth the hefty price tag? Also do NAD amps sound good driving Klipsch speakers, and would the C372 integrated amp with 150w RMS x2 into ohms satisfy me driving a pair of RF-7s? YES, Yes, Probably but I am not exactly familiar with that unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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