UPS takes it out on my RC7

[dragonfyr]

"FWIW, from here it looks like the woofers failed because of G forces, not direct impact."

.

My suspicion is that neither suspicion is correct.

If you are familiar with the processing chain within the UPS hub, you have the truck, it's unloaded and sorted to the appropriate belt which then feeds it and every other package to a charging slide, where all the packages back up with substantial pressure against one another as the continually unloaded packages add to the force. From this charging slide the packages are sorted by delivery address into the appropriate cage on a large carousel that corresponds to a particular truck - where they are removed and packed on the truck.

What appears to have happened is that while the package in on the slide, pressure has been exerted against the woofer as the speaker was most likely laying on its side. Substantial forces are translated to the packages in the form of constant pressure - in other words they are crushed against each other - and that means Grandma's cookies as well as the solid steel ingot destined for the machine shop! If your package is not as rigid and as able to withstand the forces as that package next to it, guess whose package gives way in the attempt for the two to occupy the same space! And there may not have even been any significant indication on the outside of the box!

You are the victim of the normal processing that so many time and time again fail to understand - thinking that your package will be hand carried from drop off to delivery.

And no folks, simply writing "this side up" or "fragile" does not mean much when one guy is unloading several semi's during his 4 hours each evening!

And if you think it is bad in July, you should see the forces build up as the volume of the Xmas rush nears!!! I would be very fearful of shipping ANYTHING between Halloween and the first two weeks after New Years, as the volume increases so dramatically. Plus you get the benefit of the temporary seasonal help!

And for all you who want to blame "UPS", thank the Teamsters while you are at it! They 'run' the workers! It's a wonderful(sic) place to work! Now, if the place just had oars!

So be aware that UPS is NOT designed for fragile or exceptionally sized, shaped, or weighted packages! They are an industrial shipper!

But keep shipping your fragile or exceptional packages with them and continue to be amazed! And we can keep reading the same observations!

If you are going to persist in shipping UPS, double box with a 3-4 inch space between the boxes filled with foam - and a hard cover for the face of the speaker - plywood, acrylic, etc - separated from the speaker by adequate padding! - and a rigid enclosure that will absorb the pressure instead of expecting the speaker to do so - as something will absorb the force! Its your choice and responsibility to pack it so that the 'something' other then the fragile item absorbs the pressure and inevitable impacts.

[scott0527]

Klipsch is where exactly? Someplace I am not, I am pretty sure. So how does the little RC7 get from Klipsch to this special place where I can pick it up without it being shipped there?

The nearest dealer to me is a 6 hour round trip. Gas alone for the trip is 3 times the shipping cost for the speaker.

I don't consider a 50 lbs RC7 large and bulky.

But now that you've told me to shut up I understand completely.

It is my fault, isn't it. You are correct. I apologize. What was I thinking...

I'd have to agre with you. Consdidering most of Klipsch speakers are coming from China, I'd say they are supposed to withstand a little bit of bumping around. Every now and then, something's going to get killed though, no matter how good the packaging. A 6 hour round trip for a center channel would be hell. I'd risk the shipping too.

[oscarsear]

I used to run a tech shop for portable ventilators of all vintages. We had a wide range of objects from 1 cubic foot up to half ton iorn lungs. They were all heavy and bulky with motors and batteries, etc... We had a shipping packaging system using inners and outers with shipping corners in-between. Given the volume we shipped we had very few problems and we used UPS exclusively...nationwide. That was in the 80's.

Now I won't use UPS period. I really do not care what excuse can be identified for the manner in which they frequently trash boxes. Whether it's people or machines doing it it's NOT the way to handle the packages.

These are all marked fragile aren't they. Why is a box of grandma's cookies on the same conveyor belt as a steel ingot??? I cringe when I hear that I'm getting anything shipped to me via UPS. My Cary came back from service via UPS. It was shipped in a new (brand new) box. It arrived with the outer box cut, gouged and torn open. You could look right through and see the inner box. The Cary was O.K. NO thanks to UPS. What's worse is that the delivery drivers know when they deliver damaged packages and work to hide or get away form that fact. They don't stand and wait to explain or apologize. They know that once the package is accepted the problem is yours.

UPS used to be a lot better and they could do better. FED EX does do better and I request FED EX for items shipped to me. Here's another story. My doorbell rings. By the time I'm there I see the little brown man running through the courtyard to get back to his truck. The package at my feet is bleeding packing peanuts and they're blowing around my entryway and in my door. The box appeared to have been dropped at altitude and splatted at my doorstep, exploding on impact. It was a blanket...thank GOD!!!!![:@]

[dragonfyr]

They are on the same belt because they both fall within the criterion that all of the packages must meet!

Packages are sorted by zip code and street address, not by content color, and internal contents! They are all handled the same way (unless they are exceptionally sized - for example:tractor tires, mufflers, etc! They go into a pile and are loaded into a cart and 'trucked' around the belts.)

I am in the middle here.

UPS does a great job for standard items. Items that are not especially fragile nor exceptional in their size or weight.

They are not designed to handle exceptionally fragile items.

And it is the shippers' responsibility (that's YOU!!) to pack the items sufficiently to protect them. And yes, there are things to be protected from. And you need to assume the worst!

The onus is further on the shipper to pack them securely as it seems that SO many folks here are SO aware of 'how badly' UPS handles packages.

The human handling is not bad at UPS. But they do deal with an incredible volume, and each package is handled the same! They do not have one pile for the fragile items and another for the less fragile! And to expect special handling for grandmas cookies - especially as many packages are packed as if they are a birthday present - is simply negligence on the part of the person who ships the item.

I do not support shipping fragile equipment, be it electronics, computers, or speakers via UPS.

But it is folly to keep reading of the folks who have read the sad stories here repeatedly who turn around and send their stuff via UPS - a service that is inappropriate for fragile items - especially those packed in a manner that does not accurately take into account the environment the packages will encounter.

So please folks, use the appropriate carrier for you fragile or bulky electronics, computer supplies, speakers, etc!

And that is NOT UPS.

So ship them with the proper carrier and quit blaming UPS for doing a poor job handling items that should not have been shipped UPS!

The issue is easily solved if you will simply assume responsibility for choosing the appropriate tool for the job!

[oscarsear]

dragonfyr.......... So we can only use UPS when were sending solid metal objects or solid rubber objects???[]

You're correct it's the responsibility of the packager to:

A). Properly package and lable the item, and

. Pick the correct carrier to ship the item.

......and when the packager/sender/mailer/carrier picker is me that's done and done well (ask Dr. Who). But when it's on the other side and there's no control of those actions/decisions these situations are occuring.

Per you UPS should be nicely refusing to ship anything outside of bulk raw materials...but they don't do that. Not only don't they do that but they say that they'll ship anything anywhere safely and on time. So UPS does have a serious problem in that they're unable to fulfill their own mission statement. .....and for all the backpeddling you've offered why at the point of delivery don't the UPS drivers take responsibility for fractured packages that were mistakingly solicited for by marketing and errantly accepted by the UPS shipping agents?????

[D-Rex]

UPS damaged my RC 7 but it wasn't necessarily their fault. The shipper had wrapped the entire speaker in some big bubble wrap and then placed it in it's box half full of peanuts, f-n PEANUTS! That thing could have been mince-meat but turns out only one of the woofers was damaged/cracked. I was able to silicone the woofer into position and now it works perfectly. I am still looking for a spare woofer, checking eBay from time to time, but it's not a pressing issue.

Sorry to hear your situation...

D

[Gliderguy]

The latest news on the exploded RC7 is - UPS has denied the claim.

Insufficient packaging.

The packaging was Klipsch's own. You all know the engineering in that

box - Two foam end caps, grill in separate box and the double walled

corrugated cardboard outer box. This is simply not enough protection.

How do I know? The second RC7 arrived today and it too was damaged. Not

as badly damaged as the first one but one of the edges of the new

speaker was dented from an impact.

There exists about 2 inches of air space between the box and the

unprotected speaker and this air space wasn't enough. This one

was not shipped by UPS.

I think Klipsch needs to revisit their packaging. At least they should

add some foam along the corners. Air space is not the best.

I do not know whether I will just accept the dent and move on or make

another claim. Maybe the kind folks at Klipsch would ship me an empty

baffle enclosure and I can return this one. A few minutes with a torx

and I would have a 10/10 speaker.

[dragonfyr]

dragonfyr.......... So we can only use UPS when were sending solid metal objects or solid rubber objects???[]

You're correct it's the responsibility of the packager to:

A). Properly package and lable the item, and

. Pick the correct carrier to ship the item.

......and when the packager/sender/mailer/carrier picker is me that's done and done well (ask Dr. Who). But when it's on the other side and there's no control of those actions/decisions these situations are occurring.

Per you UPS should be nicely refusing to ship anything outside of bulk raw materials...but they don't do that. Not only don't they do that but they say that they'll ship anything anywhere safely and on time. So UPS does have a serious problem in that they're unable to fulfill their own mission statement. .....and for all the backpeddling you've offered why at the point of delivery don't the UPS drivers take responsibility for fractured packages that were mistakingly solicited for by marketing and errantly accepted by the UPS shipping agents?????

Nope, you totally misstate what I said.

Where did I EVER state they should only be accepting bulk items????

I assume they take everything and that everything will be subjected to every abuse I can imagine. I assume the worst!

You do have some control over how items are shipped to you, and if the vendor will not assume the risk or will not use another shipper, then it is your choice to deal with another.

I haven't back peddled on a thing! I simply know how it works from the inside! I am fully aware of how packages are handled and processed in the hub.

UPS doesn't have to refuse to ship ANYTHING! I don't care if they live ship horses and leave them next to your door! It's their business! They can run it anyway they choose! My choice is whether or not I will employ their services!

UPS is responsible for transporting products. They should refuse to ship many things that are improperly packaged, but hey, they still assume some of the risk in the form of insurance. But they are not your mother. If you package the item and present it to them, it is reasonable for them to assume it is packaged adequately. And just because you give a package to them does not absolve you of your responsibility to package it properly.

i assume responsibility and not only choose the shippers I use more carefully but insist upon it if I order such items. And I deal with vendors when I order sensitive merchandise. If not, a condition of sale then becomes a statement, in writing, of the assumption of all responsibility until their shipper delivers an undamaged item.

But then I also use escrow when I purchase such items as well from an unverified source!

Strange how I manage to avoid these problems with being burned online and with the exposure for the majority of avoidable shipping damage.

I will also repeat that the main damage is caused by the packages being crushed. What looks like a puncture or drop is most likely caused by enormous pressure as the packages are forced together at all angles at the end of the conveyors on the charging slide. So even if the package is adequately padded, etc. it must still withstand the pressure of compaction at weird incident angles! This is wher cabinets are crushed and what looks like a corner of another package being pressed into the package. And if you put cookies in a small shoebox with pretty paper on them, you will get them, and they will most likely be powder. Especially as they may have been next to the box of 20 brake rotors on the slide!

It is a shared responsibility that I bear with the shipper as well. I don't sit on my posterior and simply whine that the rest of the world doesn't do things to my liking. If you don't like how UPS conducts their business then grow up as assume responsibility. You have chosen not to use them, and so can everyone else! And if I do chose to ship with them, and i ship many things with them - low risk items that are not fragile which are packaged adequately assuming the risk!

I deliver a well protected package to them and I trust them to "get it there". I do not naively assume that it will be placed upon a pillow and hand carried! I assume it will be treated like the commodity it is. I know it will be crushed, perhaps fall of conveyors, be dropped, etc.!!! Otherwise I ship with a carrier who charges more for smaller volumes of business that handle it differently! And then I still assume that it will be dropped, crushed, and exposed to any manner of abuse!

When I go to a concert with gorilla seating, i don't whine about my seats! If I want a reserved seat, I will chose the event and venue more carefully! If you want Concord service, don't ride Greyhound! But when you do, YOU are responsible for your choice!

But keep shipping fragile stuff with them, packaged inadequately, knowing full well that they do accept just about everything. And we can listen to you whine!

Its time you acknowledge that UPS, USPS and Airborne are the Greyhound of shippers! (Airbornes ships all by the USPS, they just pick it up and drive it to you door in a fancy truck!) Don't expect first class accomodations!

Unless you are going to over protect your equipment and are willing to assume the risk, don't ship fragile elctronics or speakers, etc. via UPS!

[Zen Traveler]

The latest news on the exploded RC7 is - UPS has denied the claim.

Are these RC-7's coming from an Authorized dealer?

[michael hurd]

While to some a 3-hour drive one way seems like a big waste of $$ and time, at least you can get a unit that is not destroyed. For me, that would be an incentive, regardless of the cost of fuel. How much is your time worth, calling the vendor, calling the claims dept, taking pictures, meeting the claims agent, only to have a claim denied? Assuming the cost of operating a motor vehicle at $ u.s. 10/hr, 6 hr drive is $ 60. What is the shipping cost? $ 20?

[D-Rex]

Gliderguy wrote the following post at 10-26-2005 6:55 PM:

The latest news on the exploded RC7 is - UPS has denied the claim.

Insufficient packaging.

The packaging was Klipsch's own. You all know the engineering in that box - Two foam end caps, grill in separate box and the double walled corrugated cardboard outer box. This is simply not enough protection.

NO, don't let them get away with this!! I challenged UPS when they told me the packaging for my RW-12 was not sufficient. I took pictures of the box and all the foam packaging and sent it back for further evaluation. I simply wasn't going to take no for an answer! They took another 2 weeks but they paid up and I have avoided using UPS ever since!

Bottom line, they owe you either a RC 7 or they owe you the cash equilivent! Don't let them of fthe hook!

D

[Professor.Ham.Slap]

I second that... I sold one of my RSW-15s and it got damaged (I even stuffed the box with packing peanuts on top of the original packaging). My claim was denied because of insufficient packaging so I called back and complained to UPS. They overturned the decision and I got my check. UPS is awful for shipping things like speakers.

[Gliderguy]

These are coming from an Authorized dealer.

The 6 hour round trip would put me at the door of - wait for it -

Soundtrack. Ahh, darn it, Soundtrack has gone out of business sort of

kinda. They now call themselves Ultimate Electronics here.

As I wrote in a previous post;

"As far as picking one up. I tried that too. Three hours driving only to

discover the one set aside by the mass market retailer was the floor

model that had been sitting, literally, on the floor of their HT room

for 6 months+. The floor where every boot toe and curious child could

find those pretty copper fragile cones.

I should have taken that one - for full pop retail no discount offered

damaged or not sorry none to be found anywhere in our system we'll need

to get back to you on that sorry.

Nah. I will work with the good guys and take my chances with a bit o' shipping."

We were so close this time. It's just a little dent.

In any case , I don't mind making some calls in an attempt to sort this

out. Or maybe I can drive the 13 hours round trip to SLC to get a

perfect one.

Shipping was by a freight company and was $60.

[Zen Traveler]

These are coming from an Authorized dealer.

The 6 hour round trip would put me at the door of - wait for it - Soundtrack. Ahh, darn it, Soundtrack has gone out of business sort of kinda. They now call themselves Ultimate Electronics here.

As I wrote in a previous post...

The RC-7 is an outstanding speaker. I am sorry I missed the "Authorized dealer aspect," from your previous post. I am EXTREMELY aware of Ultimate Electronics--I lost a bundle on them. I still feel they have attractive stores and am sorry they closed here in Texas. I wish Klipsch would consider going back into TWEETER--It would be beneficial for both companies.

Keep your good relationship with Ultimate Electronics and keep us posted on your results. BTW: The reason I asked about the "Authorized dealer" is because no dealer in their right mind would send an RC-7 in the stock Klipsch box, by UPS.