Noticeably better to let your Receiver control crossover?

[RRZ]

I have Klipsch RB-5s, RC-3, RS-3s, a RSW-10 and a Denon 2800 receiver and unfortunately, although you can specify whether you have a subwoofer, there do not appear to be any settings to specify the crossover frequency.

I haven't found any documentation that clarifies whether the 2800 controls crossover or whether it simply provides a pre-out to the subwoofer without coordinating that output with the output sent to other speakers. (later models did allow frequency selection)

For those of you that can select whether your receiver controls the crossover, is there a noticeable difference between just having your sub hooked up (presumably receiving all low frequency signals) and having your receiver control what frequency signals are sent to the sub?

Or are my assumptions incorrect here? Would all non-selectable receivers simply choose a reasonable default crossover frequency (100?)?

Do most of you notice a big difference when using 60 or 80 or 100 as your crossover frequency?

Please let me know if I misunderstand how all this works, as I'm a novice here.

[travisc]

from what I can see is a denon 2800 is a DVD player not a reciever. I may be wrong here but I think your reciever must have a different model number.

[RRZ]

I have the AVR-2800 receiver.

http://usa.denon.com/1367.asp?archivedModelSearch=true&archivedCategory=AV&archivedModel=AVR-2800&imageField.x=13&imageField.y=13

[travisc]

sorry buddy my bad. Looks like I cant download your user manual at site(only a product sheet) strange that a 5.1 has 4 external outputs LCRS no surround

anyway

I would assume that there is a crossover that can be set. This is hardly a POS reciever and even those allow for a crossover setting speaker distances and size. Spend a little more time looking in the menu. It may be that there is a fixed 80hz crossover and applies only to the speaker size menu and you LFE. Let the reciever do your crossover though. turn the dial all the way up on the sub. Reciever set to sub=yes and set the distances.

someone who is familiar with that reciever will chime in soon enough

sorry I couldnt be of more help

[RRZ]

Thanks for trying to help. I've exhausted the respective menus and am certain the receiver doesn't allow crossover frequency to be specified. The owners manual for the later models (2802, 2803, 2805, 3802, etc.) all show the menu selection that selects crossover frequency, but my only option on the menu is Subwoofer? yes/no. The descriptions for the newer models on the Denon website also include references to specifying crossover frequency in their basic features, but the 2800's description doesn't. Thus, I'm 99.999% certain I can't pick a frequency. My 2800 does allow setting distances and sizes for speakers.

Nonetheless, the receiver probably has a fixed crossover frequency. I'm wondering whether upgrading to a newer model with a selectible frequency will be noticeably better than my fixed frequency?

I assume when you refer to "turn the dial all the way up on the sub" you are suggesting to allow the sub to play the highest frequencies sent to it by the receiver, instead of the sub's own manually set crossover cut-off. That's a good idea...I'll check to see that I have that dial set properly when I get home.

[travisc]

odds are it set to 80hz this is what dolby labs and thx reccomend. If the sub has the option to turn the crossover off or bypass it go with that option and turn it up all the way anyway just to be sure. Let me know if that fixes things, you could be missing out on all kinds of good bass if that crossover on the sub is getting in the way.

good luck

[DrWho]

Ok, your reciever has no crossover which is why you can't find it in

the menu. So why does it have a subwoofer pre-out? Because Dolby and

DTS sources contain 6 tacks of audio. L - C - R - RS - LS - SUB. When

watching a movie in one of those formats, the subwoofer channel (the

".1" in "5.1") will get sent to the subwoofer (This .1 channel is

called the LFE, for low frequency effect)

Just curious, does your reciever have "large" and "small" settings for

the mains? Also, does it have a setting to say that there is no

subwoofer? (If it does, then telling the reciever that you have no subwoofer should route the LFE into the mains).

If you can tell your reciever that you have no subwoofer, then connect

your subwoofer to the left and right pre-outs on the back. Then adjust

the crossover on the sub to just start playing as the RB-5's start

dropping out, which will be around 50Hz. This will allow your subwoofer

to work with both movies and music and even change volume with the

volume dial on the reciever.

Your other option is to get a better reciever that has more bass

management capabilities (which would include an optional adjustable

crossover on every channel). A reciever with

crossover capabilities is better because it reduces the amount of

low frequency content going to the mains. Low notes cause the diaphragm

to move further, which causes the higher notes being played by the same

woofer to get distorted by the doppler effect. If you can get a

different driver (your subwoofer) to play the low notes, then your

midrange is going to sound cleaner because you have gotten rid of the

information causing the doppler shifts. So by implementing a subwoofer

correctly you end up with both more low end and a better midrange. In

your situation you are simply getting more low end without any

clarity improvements (but you are limited by the function of your

reciever in this regard).

If your reciever does not have the option for "no subwoofer" then

there is one other alternative - but it will require either a switching

device or a fancy summing circuit of some sort and will be harder to

dial in the subwoofer's crossover, but should theoretically be possible

to achieve a correct result.

Let me know if this is the case and then we can get you hooked up via

this route (though it will be easier and better to just get a better

reciever).

[RRZ]

My receiver does have large/small menu options for mains and does let me specify whether I have a subwoofer.

You suggest that if I can tell my receiver I have no subwoofer, then I should choose that (presumably because then I'll get all frequencies sent to the sub and I can manually set the sub to pick the optimal crossover frequency?) (and I'll get the use of volume control via the receiver).

Should it matter whether I choose large or small for my mains (currently I selected small mains and "yes" to subwoofer)?

The other alternative presumably would be to tell my receiver that "yes" I have a sub. You suggest that my receiver has no crossover. But if that is the case, why would it have a menu selection to specify whether I have a sub or not (independent of whether pre-outs exist, which you explain above). Is it possible my receiver has a fixed crossover frequency? What purpose would the menu selection serve if not to have to receiver manage the crossover?

If this is also is an option, is it likely I would get a better result relying on the receiver to manage the crossover?

I appreciate all your assistance. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreted what you're trying to explain. I'm also tempted to email Klipsch to have them clarify how the 2800's crossover works.

[travisc]

I think the good DR was telling you to do all the crossover stuff through the sub only if you couldnt set speaker sizes(large or small) if you can set sizes then you have a crossover its just not adjustable. So I still think you should set sub to yes all speakers to small, bypass the subs crossover or turn it up all the way. The if you want you can try turning the mains back to large and determine what sounds best to you.