?? Aside From X-Overs, Do Old Speakers TYPICALLY Need Rebuilding ??

[Gilbert]

I'm posting this thread because of something I heard. And that's the difference in sound, between my stock 1989 Cornwalls, and my 1961 ALK'ed Cornwalls. The 89's sound better, clearer. The 61's seem to sound a bit muffled, not horrible, but just a bit muffled. I've only been listening to them for 2 days now, so, maybe it's just the switch from horizontals to verticals.....not sure.

When the 61's were hooked up, the first thing I noted right off the bat was that I had to adjust the Hum Level on the Amps (MC60's), where as I never had to touch that adjustment on the 89's.

Aside from the ALK networks, everything else is BONE STOCK in the 61's.

Is it possible that the woofers, squawkers and/or tweeters need rebuilding. Please Help, if your familiar with the working's of these components. In the mean time, I'm going to play cornwall swap-a-thon, for a real comparison.

I'll let you know what my ears hear next weekend.

[BEC]

Gilbert,

What network was in the 1961 Cornwalls before you replaced it? I think if all your drivers are original, the ALK crossover may not be right for those old Cornwalls. I think the tweeter may be 16 ohms instead of 8 ohms that the newer crossovers are built for. If that is the case, the tweeter would only get half the power it should.

Bob Crites

[Deang]

Aren't the '89s Cornwall II's?

If they were my 61's -- I would probably have all the diaphragms replaced. We're talking 45 years of use here.

Good call Bob.

[Gilbert]

BOB, my man! Thank you.

The original xovers are labeled C-22. The tweeters, although labeled K77, look different than the K77 tweeters on my 67's and 68's.

Dean, where do I buy the replacement diaphragms? And are the relatively easy to install?

Thanks Guys, I think you saved me.

[BEC]

Gilbert,

I would also be the one to go to for the tweeter diaphragms also, however, the manufacturer has not made any new ones in several months and I have been out of them for a couple of months now.

I would suggest that perhaps you should go another way on the tweeters. Your old 16 ohm with the chrome horns (if that it what you have) are worth lots more left alone than changed to 8 ohm units. I think you should buy a pair of the newer type K-77 or K-77M 8 ohm tweeters. Rebuilding your old ones is possible, but is a real pain to do. The newer ones are much easier to rebuild.

I do have diaphragms for your K-55V midranges if you need those.

Bob Crites

[Al Klappenberger]

Gilbert,

The networks I used to make for the Cornwall was to replace the "B series" networks. That is, the B, B-2, and B-3. I don't know what was in the Cornwall that has the "C" network. Bob is probably right about the tweeter. The later square K77m tweeters are 8 Ohms and are more sensitive than the older round magnet version even at 8 Ohms. A 16 Ohm K77 would really louse up my Cornwall network!

Al K.

[Gilbert]

Yes, Bob, your right. The 61's tweeters have the Chrome horn. And I know Deans suggestion makes absolute sense. My god, they're 45yrs old. Just a hair older than me.

For woofers, I'm in luck because I just happen to have a spare pair of K33E's in my attic. They're only 2 yrs old, or there abouts. I will use them while I send the old Jensen's off to Top Dog, so they can be rebuilt.

As for your K-55v diaphragms, SOLD! Just PM me, and let me know where to send the money, and how much.

But for the tweeter's, would you recommend, the K77 or K77M? Keep in mind that my ears tend shy away from harsh sounding highs.

AL, I'm sorry my 61's tweeters are beating up on your Xovers. I'll make it better real soon.

[BEC]

Gilbert,

You have a PM.

Bob

[NOSValves]

Yes, Bob, your right. The 61's tweeters have the Chrome horn. And I know Deans suggestion makes absolute sense. My god, they're 45yrs old. Just a hair older than me.

Your just as good as new aren't you[]

[djk]

An 89 Cornwall tweeter is ±3dB to 20Khz, a pre-85 Cornwall tweeter is maybe ±3dB to 15Khz, they sound very different.

[Frzninvt]

The drivers in the Cornwall II are superior and have extended range over those in the 61's despite you having the better networks in them as DJK has pointed out. I don't know why people get it stuck in there heads that the original Cornwalls performed better because it just is not true.

Imagine what the '89's will sound like if you update the "el cheapo" networks in them and get some sort of insulation in the cabinet to tame resonances.

You can change the diaphrams in the tweeters and midranges but it is still not going to bring them to the level of performance of the newer midrange and tweeter in the Cornwall II's.

My 62's sounded great with DeanG's Kimber'd Type B's, but when compared to the '87 CII's I had they sounded a bit dull, because the K-57K and K-79K are just better drivers. If you really want to make them better I would keep the original drivers in a safe place and put K-57's & K-79's in them. Should be able to mount them in the same spots without modifications, but the network would have to be different.

[BEC]

Charles,

The K-79 horn is larger than the K-77 horn and will not install in the same place. Also, your 62's also should have had the 16 ohm tweeters orginally, so perhaps you did not hear them working right with new networks.

Bob Crites

[Frzninvt]

Bob, the flange is larger but the hole will be big enough with them mounted from behind for them to work. If you put a K-77 and K-79 face to face in inner part of the flange is about the same dimensions as the K-77 from what I recall.

The C-22 network is a 1000Hz-5000Hz network.

I would keep the Jensen woofer and install K-57's and K-79's for the top end and custom make a network for them, but I am silly like that.

[NOSValves]

I don't think I would modify the 62 corns in anyway that was not 100% reversible. I don't see the point in owning 62 cornwalls and turning them into Cornwall II's.

If they were mine I would go to the trouble of finding new parts to rebuild all the original drivers. Then I would have Dean with the help of Al if need be make a custom set of crossovers to accomdate the 16 ohm driver. Those speakers are special why take that charm away from them.

Craig

[BEC]

Charles,

The cutout would need to be about 1/2 inch wider and 1/2 inch higher for the K-79 horn.

Bob

[Frzninvt]

I agree Craig, I would not do it either unless it was 100% reversible it would be sacriligeous to carve up Klipsch history like that.

Mine sounded great and had plenty of highs, I never realized the tweeter was 16 ohm, you learn something new everyday I guess.

[JJkizak]

After installing the new Dean crosovers in my 1965 Cornwall the difference was amazing. Still I wondered about the age of the units and if there were upgrade kits available from Klipsch in various degrees of practicality in the "cash" department.

JJK

[BEC]

JJK,

You may also have 16 ohm tweeters in your Cornwalls, and if so, your networks are not right for them. I don't know when Klisph went to the 8 ohm units, but it would have been when the type B crossover came into use I think. I know that by 67 the tweeters were 8 ohms but not sure when the change happened.

Bob Crites

[Frzninvt]

The '65 Cornwall does not have the chrome throat 16 ohm tweeter, I am reasonably certain the last year that they were used was '64. Gilbert's '61's have them, Steve Fellini's '62's have them (previously mine), Michael Colter's '63's and Allan Songer's '64's also have them.

I have never seen them in '65 and newer Cornwalls, but with Klipsch and Cornwalls anything is possible.

[BEC]

The crossover should tell you. The type B is for the 8 ohm tweeter. I think all earlier crossover types would have been for the 16 ohm tweeter. In the Khorn, the type A is (I believe) the first crossover for the 8 ohm tweeter.

Bob Crites