Why LPs suck

[maxg]

Just as a matter of interest how do you guys buy your second hand vinyl?

It has occured to me from the posts that many here "buy blind". A visual inspection of a record's surface will only tell you if you should drop it immediately - not if it plays well.

I buy from 2 or 3 shops local to my office in the main. Each of these has a reasonable TT installed and I play any disk I buy before buying. I guess I eliminate 30-40% of the records I have picked up that way.

On the odd ocasion where I buy a lot of records in one go (20 plus) I might not test in the shop but I will only take them on the understanding I can return any I am not happy with. None of the shops have any problem with this approach - probably because I am a good customer.

Neo's claim that his setup plays without pops and clicks is not quite as unbelievable to me as it is to you all. If he auditions his records before buying I would not say he will be totally without the blips - but they will be a lot rarer. The vast majority of my collection is at least pop and click rare if not free.

Any record I buy with more than say - 2 clicks per side would probably get returned for another, better copy.

[Def Leper]

I would rename this thread "Why some topics suck."

I don't listen to music to revel in the techology of the media, I listen to music to revel in the music!

Every techology has good and bad points. I listen to wax cylinders on an Edison player, 78's on several players including a Premier piano-form photograph and Victrola VV-IX, a wide variety of mono, stereo and quadraphonic LP's on my trusty old Thorens, Pioneer and Techiniques turntables, reel to reel tapes on a Pioneer RT707 tape unit, and CD's that I've been collecting since the CD first appeared on a number of different players.

And you know what? I can't remember going to pick out a particular recording so I can be amazed by the media and my music delivery system. I pick the recording because I want ot hear the music. Frankly, I've got examples of good, bad, indifferent and great recordings in every medium. I'd rather hear a good 78 on my Premier than a bad CD on my Klipsch system, and I have recordings that I never really was able to hear until I got a remastered version on CD to replace an indifferent LP. I've also run into a few that were very poorly remaster on CD and sounded much better on vinyl.

It really should be about the music, not the media.

[dragonfyr]

Max, I suspect that not too many are sourcing records in a forum that supports the ability to examine used vinyl in such a manner. But you are correct, that is the ideal way to buy used vinyl. It is a rare opportunity in the seemingly endless march to having all program material come from Questionable Buys or Wal-Mart!

And regarding clicks and pops, I suspect that many may be using the same terms to mean slightly different things. While I believe you are using it to refer to the distinct click or pop, I suspect many are using the term to refer to the increased noise floor - the 'white noise' and lesser, more frequent chatter experienced in the lower S/N 'snap, crackle and pop' of records - especially used records!

And DL, regarding that which is more important, the music or the equipment. Yes, its easy and cavalier to say it's just about the music, but unfortunately, the old all-in-one 'stereo' is just not equivalent to a better quality system. And unfortunately, the equipment too can contribute to the sound rather dramatically instead of simply revealing the nature of the medium!!

Thus you inevitably reach a dilemma of wanting to drive a car while you glibly dismiss and render the engineer and mechanic who design and maintain the equipment superfluous! If only the music appeared as if by magic without the inconvenience of the 'mechanics'. And some of us are from the technical arena with regards to the medium! And the same can be said from a musician's point of view.

And if you followed the long sad tale here, you would note a consistent complaint against positing only one format as the be all end all, and a call for a more balanced approach. And this thread was posted, if I may be so bold as to hazard my assessment, in response to the too common call that vinyl renders the various digital source alternatives worthless. It's simply part of the seemingly neverending swing of the pendulum reacting against the extreme, when the answer is indeed in the middle.

So, your insight is actually not too far from what many of us have been saying! (And your response exactly what you rail against! Just as we too have fallen into it!)[][]

[seti]

Why do some LPs sound so good?

I don't care to know the exact reason.

Why do some CDs suck?

I still play them anyway the early days of CDs was not stellar by any means and I have had some new ones suck as well.

Why do I like the sound of the needle hitting the record?

I don't care why but I do!

Nothing better than the White Album on vinyl......

"Many people claim that the analog sound is "truer" because it is not

reconstructed. They claim that digital sound simply does not sound as

natural to them. Others claim that digital is more natural because it

is not subject to the same imperfections and non-linear distortion as

an analog medium. And some suggest that analog is technically of lower

quality than digital but sounds subjectively better. For the

general listener, however, there appears at present to be no simple way

of demonstrating or proving the difference in fidelity.

For modern recordings, the controversy between analog recording and

digital recording is becoming moot. No matter what format the user

uses, the recording probably was digital at several stages in its life."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video' title="Digital video">

The way I see it we are in this hobby because we love music not because

of Klipsch or any other product or medium. We just happen to invest

more attention and care to our playback of music than most people. It

doesn't matter what the medium is when we play it it is going to sound

thousands of times better than a system from sears or target or

bestbuy. I love having friends come over and bring their favorite cd or

record and after hearing it say i have never heard that in that

song before or thats the best that has ever sounded to me can we play

it again. They think I am nuts for wanting to upgrade tubes or cdp they

ask how could it sound better but after I get my room tweaked we shall

see.

I Love Rock N' Roll

I saw him dancin' there by the record machine

I knew he must a been about seventeen

The beat was goin' strong

Playin' my favorite song

An' I could tell it wouldn't be long

Till he was with me, yeah me, singin'

I love rock n' roll

So put another dime in the jukebox, baby

I love rock n' roll

So come an' take your time an' dance with me

He smiled so I got up and' asked for his name

That don't matter, he said,

'Cause it's all the same

Said can I take you home where we can be alone

An' next we were movin' on

He was with me, yeah me

Next we were movin' on

He was with me, yeah me, singin'

I love rock n' roll

So put another dime in the jukebox, baby

I love rock n' roll

So come an' take your time an' dance with me

Said can I take you home where we can be alone

An we'll be movin' on

An' singin' that same old song

Yeah with me, singin'

I love rock n' roll

So put another dime in the jukebox, baby

I love rock n' roll

So come an' take your time an' dance with me

____

Wow Jukeboxes took dimes?

[maxg]

Joan Jet?

[JJkizak]

I read an article years ago where a record was played (1.5 gram pressure) and then the width and depth of the grooves were measured. The author stated that it took 20 minutes for the grooves to retain 99% of the original dimensions. His reccommendation was to wait at least 30 minutes before playing the record again. I have worked in forming plastics for many years and there is good quality vinyl and bad quality. There are a whole slew of intangibles in the forming process and I could see why the quality variations were many in the final product. Too hot, too cold, too fast, too slow, too humid, too hydroscopic(very minute), too contaminated, not enough, too much, not enough cooling time, dust in air, air bubbles, too brittle, too soft, etc. Sun exposure after 20 years will render the record useless, it will fall apart from the well know process of "bio-degredation". The Vinyl siding on you house has mucho ultraviolet chemicals processed with it so it literally doesn't fall off the house and then they rate it for 40 years which I think is a bit on the much side. If it is painted that is another story as the paint blocks the UV. When vinyl is in flame it gives off deadly gasses, (not when in soft forming state) and it will react with chrome and form nitric acid when heated. But I still have about 300 albums on the shelf.

JJK

[seti]

Joan Jet?

Joan Jett is a great rockstar! Great live show especially today.

[pauln]

I read an article years ago where a record was played (1.5 gram pressure) and then the width and depth of the grooves were measured. The author stated that it took 20 minutes for the grooves to retain 99% of the original dimensions. His reccommendation was to wait at least 30 minutes before playing the record again. I have worked in forming plastics for many years and there is good quality vinyl and bad quality. There are a whole slew of intangibles in the forming process and I could see why the quality variations were many in the final product. Too hot, too cold, too fast, too slow, too humid, too hydroscopic(very minute), too contaminated, not enough, too much, not enough cooling time, dust in air, air bubbles, too brittle, too soft, etc. Sun exposure after 20 years will render the record useless, it will fall apart from the well know process of "bio-degredation". The Vinyl siding on you house has mucho ultraviolet chemicals processed with it so it literally doesn't fall off the house and then they rate it for 40 years which I think is a bit on the much side. If it is painted that is another story as the paint blocks the UV. When vinyl is in flame it gives off deadly gasses, (not when in soft forming state) and it will react with chrome and form nitric acid when heated. But I still have about 300 albums on the shelf.

JJK

Well, I give mine about a month before I play them again, but if it really recovers 99% in 20 minutes, isn't that about the time it takes to paly a side anyway? LPs are meant to be played a whole side at a time... who would ever repaet a song over and over, much less play a record more than once in a listening session? That's bizarre!

[tofu]

who would ever repaet a song over and over, much less play a record more than once in a listening session?

[garymd]

On occasion, after playing something that really knocks my socks off, I'll call the wife downstairs for a listen. These LPs seem to have held up pretty well. Never heard of this causing problems before.

[boomer9911]

guess I have to stop going to garage sales or flea markets now........Marantz turntables up for grabs..(3 various...obtained from garage\estate sales also).......next stop....ORACLE......[]