Should I build University Classic or La Scalas?

[Quisitive]

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and hope to get some advice.
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So I hope you don't mind a longish initial post to give all the relevant background.

Ive been planning on building a pair of new speakers for quite some time now.

The problem I have is fairly common: I have a small listening room at roughly 10x12 with 9 ceilings. Not only that, but it has to do common duty as my home office due to WAF issues so its kind of crowded with the work table and a rather large freestanding laser printer.

Lately, I became enamored with the idea of building a pair of University classics. It all started when I came across this thread on the forum:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/1/657097/ShowPost.aspx

One of the reasons it caught my attention is that somehow over the last couple of years I have managed to accumulate a fair quantity of University drivers, including:

Four C15W Woofers
Two H600 Horns with T-30 drivers
Four H206 Tweeters
Two N-3 Crossovers
Zero Cobreflex Horns (so far at least, but theyre on eBay all the time)

plus some others:

Two 312 Model 200 Co-axes
Two C8W Woofers
Two C8M Midranges
Two T202 Sphericon Tweeters

All of these last were NOS, but probably don't have a bearing on this post.

Anyway, back to the point of all this. Reality set in when I plotted the measurements of the Classics against the floorplan of my office/listening room, which looks like this:

Due to the small size of the room, whats in there already, and the large size of the Classics, they end up being awfully close together.

How bad is this? Should I still build them, or build something with a smaller form factor like La Scala clones? I also would like to get the best, cleanest bass that I can.

Id really like to like try my hand at building some folded horns and Id also like to use the University drivers I have on hand. I have both of Abe Cohen's speaker books had looked at the different plans, but all of the folded horn speakers are pretty bulky.

I dont mind going to a higher aspect folded horn if it narrows the width of the cabinet. Any ideas?

I also realize that the drivers I have may not be suitable for use in a La Scala clone, or other folded horn designs for that matter. If necessary, Ill sell them to buy what I really need.

Oh yes, I left out an important detail. Right now my main system is a restored and upgraded Fisher 800c, but I have a series of projects currently in the works including a pair of 300B monoblocks and a 45 SET amp. So I would like to have something thats pretty high efficiency, especially for the 45s, which I cant wait to assemble.

So bottom line, Im open to any and all ideas and will respond happily and gratefully.

Thanks in advance!
Chris

[Duke Spinner]

Claaaaaasssssic....!!!!!

[D-MAN]

Dude - the Classic can stand vertically, rather than horizontally in your picture...

The footprint of the LS is 24x24 inches but it doesn;t go as low as the Classic would. Not too bad, but you will probably get to the point where you want to use a subwoofer - so whatever space you've used, you will probably end up using more for the additional subwoofer.

The Classic footprint would be 24x30 vertical (if I remember correctly). You wouldn't give up much space for gaining the extra bass extension.

I would go for the Classic if it were me. But, remember the psychological effects... they would be 42 inches high, and that could make the room seems excessively "full" or cluttered. The LS's would present a more compact and possibly more livable "look". They just wouldn't perform as well, comparitively.

DM

[126mhz]

Obviously I'm a newby, could someone point me to a site or a lnk where I could see a pair of University Classic speakers.

Thanks,

[formica]

I've heard LaScala's and they are very bass shy... so I'd also

vote for the Classics if comparing those two in a good room. Most

people compare the University's favourably to Khorns... which are in

themselves in a different league compared to Scalas.

OTOH, your room looks a little too small for either one. BUT, if

you ever get you move your equipment to a better room, you'll be happy

you built the bigger bass horns.

Obviously I'm a newby, could someone point me to a

site or a lnk where I could see a pair of University Classic

speakers.

Sure.... right here on the Klipsch forums there is a good thread called University Classic, Pictures & Drawing Plans (as mentioned in the first post)

ROb

[djk]

About 41" high, by 31" wide, by 24" deep.

The Cobreflex should go on top when these are set-up the tall way. Then they end up being about the same height and width as the K-horn.

Buy a set of Cornwalls while you're building the Classics. Gives you something to listen to, and they may sound better in the small room. You can always get your money back out of the Cornwalls later, if need be.

[Quisitive]

So far, the votes seem to be in favor of building the Classics.

I would definitely be building these in the vertical configuration and I have mocked up their bulk and placement in the room already. The room layout shows the vertical configuratin with the 24"x30" footprint. The 41" height would place the Cobreflex and tweeter at ideal heights for listening.

The size doesn't really bother me, as I already have a couple or three different and smaller speaker pairs stacked in there already. They would go and the classics would take their place.

But what about separation? This may be a somewhat foolish question, as the Cobreflex and tweeter would be in about the same location as my current set of speakers. I guess the overall bulk of the Classics is what's throwing me off. It might just be a psychological thing visually.

OK, so I buy a pair of Cobreflex horns, mount my T-30 drivers on them, rebuild my N-3 crossovers with better capacitors and go from there.

What't the best material? Seven-ply birch plywood like they used back in the 50's and 60's or should I spring for 13-ply Baltic Birch? There's also that 11-ply stuff that you can get at Home Depot and Lowes, but he qulaity seems highly variable. I'm thinking MDF will change the overall sound, but could be wrong. Plus, in that size enclosure we're talking some serious weight!

Should I be posting these questions on the other thread?

Thanks again everyone, keep it coming!

Chris

[Duke Spinner]

About 41" high, by 31" wide, by 24" deep.

The Cobreflex should go on top when these are set-up the tall way. Then they end up being about the same height and width as the K-horn.

Buy a set of Cornwalls while you're building the Classics. Gives you something to listen to, and they may sound better in the small room. You can always get your money back out of the Cornwalls later, if need be.

COBREFLEX ....????

jez ..DJK....

I threw these away for years outta High School Aud's ...

what gives ..??

[Q-Man]

Build the Classic. Nicest bass I ever heard.

Can you see the picture? It's my first time posting a picture on the new Forum.

[Q-Man]

Rear center channel.

[Quisitive]

Hi Q-Man.

Yes, your photo posted just fine, but I believe the enclosure is actually the "Dean" instead of the "Classic".

From what I can tell, the Classic and the Dean both used the same driver configuration. But the Dean had a somewhat smaller footprint and could only be used as a "lowboy", whereas the Classic could be configured either as low aspect or high aspect. The ability to have it set up as high aspect made me revisit the design as I hadn't realized that it could be set up ths way when I first looked at it in Cohen's book.

In the post previous to yours, Duke asked "what's up with the Cobreflex?" Well, I guess I was always a little skeptical myself, but others on this and other forums say they sound pretty good. I don't have any yet, but have been looking at them more closely. The Cobreflex III's are still being made by EV, but I think they are mainly for PA use. They also appear to be made from fiberglas instead of the aluminum that the Cobreflex II's are made of. But don't hold me to that.

OK, so what if you wanted to use a different squawker? The Cobreflex is a known quantity in the Classic, don't know about others. Any thoughts out there? Maybe actual experience?

One nice thing about the configuration of the Classic is it would appear that you could "hang" different horns in there. The opening is certainly big enough.

Chris

[Q-Man]

The Altec 311-90 horn and Altec 290-16K driver that I use with my klipschorns will work, but you will need to design another network.

One of these days my next project is to try the 2" BMS coaxal driver with the Classic. I need to find or build a horn for that driver.

I did alot of A/B comparisions with the Corbreflex and the K-400 horn. The Corbreflex sounds cleaner.

You can use the JBL 2404H tweeter instead of the 206, but again you will need to change the network.

The Corbreflex 3 will do just fine.

My Classic is now up right. I screwed a couple of legs on the back of it.

Mount the midranre and tweeter on top. I don't like them in the mouth of the bass horn. You can build a top hat to hold them like the Klipschorn and now the new LaScala.

If you do a search back a couple of years you might find a couple of my post about the Classic and some Klipschorn mods.

[Quisitive]

Q-Man -

I hadn't thought about adding legs to the Dean, but I did consider building a cabinet that is rectangular on the outside but angled on the inside.

This morning I've been looking at the horn configurations of the Classic vs. the Dean. There's only a 3" difference in the long dimension, but I notice that the shape of the horn is different.

I read several posts on the other thread:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/5/657097/ShowPost.aspx#657097

where on page 5 ajsons posted this drawing:

D-Man had a post immediately following that suggested some alterations to the angles based on Huygens.

This is NOT my area of expertise, not by a long shot, but I am curious (hence my avatar) about the differences between the two and the effect they would have on bass and sound quality.

As to mounting the two horns on top of the bass bin, I have no problem with that at all. I know some don't like the styling of the new La Scala, but I do. But then, I always liked the way the Altec Model 19s looked.

I have pretty good cabinet making skills and can build pretty much whatever I want. I just want to make sure I have the best design, and the most complementary drivers, before the sawdust starts flying.

So as I've said before, I'm open to all input.

Chris

[awsjr]

I am building some Classics and some of the angles were confusing......plus I needed more dimensions....so I redrew the plans.....I also modified things for 1" wall thickness instead of 3/4"......I will be glad to create .pdf files and email them if you want to use them as a reference -Al

[Q-Man]

The Classic came after the Dean, if the Dean is what mine is called. My plans call it the Classic, but I'll call it the Dean here. I think the Classic was a compromise in sound for an easier build.

I was also intrigued with the Deans exterior shape. The 45 degree rear clipped corners make it easy to push into a room corner like the Klipschorn. This takes up a lot less floor space. The bass horn is wider then the Klipschorn allowing one to use a much larger midrange horn. A 200 to 250Hz horn is also very deep,( front to back). The rear of the horn and driver can hang over the back of the cabinet into the room corner.

[Quisitive]

I am building some Classics and some of the angles were confusing......plus I needed more dimensions....so I redrew the plans.....I also modified things for 1" wall thickness instead of 3/4"......I will be glad to create .pdf files and email them if you want to use them as a reference -Al

Hi Al -

I have followed your posts on the other thread with great interest. I would be very interested in getting your redrawn plans, especially if they are drawn to accommodate 1" walls. I was planning on adding back braces at a minimum. BTW, what are they drawn in?

I also notice you live in Austin, same as me. If you're interested in a team build PM me.

Chris

[Quisitive]

The Classic came after the Dean, if the Dean is what mine is called. My plans call it the Classic, but I'll call it the Dean here. I think the Classic was a compromise in sound for an easier build.

I was also intrigued with the Deans exterior shape. The 45 degree rear clipped corners make it easy to push into a room corner like the Klipschorn. This takes up a lot less floor space. The bass horn is wider then the Klipschorn allowing one to use a much larger midrange horn. A 200 to 250Hz horn is also very deep,( front to back). The rear of the horn and driver can hang over the back of the cabinet into the room corner.

Q-Man -

This is starting to make a lot more sense, historically. I now see how the names came to be.

You're quite correct about the Dean's exterior shape. But given my particular room situation, I'm not sure it would be of any benefit for me. On the other hand, placing other horns on top of a (somewhat) shorter cabinet is an interesting idea as you could more easily try different horns. I'm guessing I will probably build the rectangular Classics unless there's a compelling reason to go with the bass horn configuration of the Dean.

Chris

[ajsons]

The Classic came after the Dean, if the Dean is what mine is called. My plans call it the Classic, but I'll call it the Dean here. I think the Classic was a compromise in sound for an easier build.

I was also intrigued with the Deans exterior shape. The 45 degree rear clipped corners make it easy to push into a room corner like the Klipschorn. This takes up a lot less floor space. The bass horn is wider then the Klipschorn allowing one to use a much larger midrange horn. A 200 to 250Hz horn is also very deep,( front to back). The rear of the horn and driver can hang over the back of the cabinet into the room corner.

Q-Man,

The Dean was erroneously called the Classic in Abraham Cohen's book. Thanks again for the plans by the way. It is not a wall type as the book calls it but a "cornerless corner horn".

[ajsons]

I myself prefer the Dean, and was going to build a pair, but was lucky to win a $30 Classic on ebay. Now I really am not sure what to do next. The logical thing to do is build a matching Classic to the one I already have. I tried to redesign the Dean so it is not as wide, but the height of the C15W gets in the way. An EV driver is shown on this rough plan, although an access cover can probably be made to follow the magnet cover of the C15W. The cobreflex horn is probably better on top so it doesn't restrict the mouth. The enclosure is 31-1/2 in wide, 34- 1/2 high and 27- 1/2 deep (so it can fit through a door). The folding eliminates half a turn. Flare = 50hz, throat = 6 x 13, mouth=1/8 size. (Ignore the reflector angle, I have to work on that.) Comments for improvements are welcome. The horn's length is about 47 inches.

[TRiv]

The Classic came after the Dean, if the Dean is what mine is called. My plans call it the Classic, but I'll call it the Dean here. I think the Classic was a compromise in sound for an easier build.

I was also intrigued with the Deans exterior shape. The 45 degree rear clipped corners make it easy to push into a room corner like the Klipschorn. This takes up a lot less floor space. The bass horn is wider then the Klipschorn allowing one to use a much larger midrange horn. A 200 to 250Hz horn is also very deep,( front to back). The rear of the horn and driver can hang over the back of the cabinet into the room corner.

Q-Man,

The Dean was erroneously called the Classic in Abraham Cohen's book. Thanks again for the plans by the way. It is not a wall type as the book calls it but a "cornerless corner horn".

Recieved same copy of Cohen book this weekend, some real good stuff......