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RF-7s need at least 200 watts to sing???


BillH2121

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Recently, I've noticed a few threads regarding RF-7s that instruct the questioner of the need for "at least" 200 watts to make the RF-7 "sing". I believe this constitutes misinformation that may result in some looking to another speaker and missing the opportunity to enjoy the beautiful RF-7. I don't think the RF-7 needs anywhere near 200 watts to sound great. I have a Mac 2102 - a tube amp rated at 100 watts per side, but which, I understand, routinely tests at 120 -125 watts. I run my RF-7s on the 4 ohm tap and they sound fantastic in all applications I routinely use - symphonic, jazz, and classic rock played at loud (really loud) levels. According to the Mac blue eyes, I'm usually cranking around 10 watts - rarely 100 watts. As has been discussed here before, its not always the amount of power but the quality going to the RF-7 that 's important. To any of you who are contemplating the purchase of RF-7s, don't worry about running out to grab that 1000 watt amp - there are other alternatives - get the 7s, you'll like them. BTW - I have nothing against pwerful amps, I just don't agree they are necessary to run the 7s.

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No one's saying you need to run a 200w amp wide open to enjoy RF-7's -

just that the available headroom in a massive power amp like that is

going to reduce the problem of dynamic compression, thus "opening up"

the RF-7's at THX reference levels, which is what most of those posters

refer to as the "right" volume level...

Personally, I'm not a big fan of high listening volumes, particularly

with horn speakers. Hell, my JBLs rarely get above 90dB - I gotta be in

one of those hating-life kind of funks and listening to terribly

depressing old rock ballads like Dream Theater's "Space Dye Vest" and

Radiohead's "Fake Plastic Trees" to get my itch for volume going...

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Not to defend either side, but I'd liken it to driving an old muscle car. You know, the ones with 396 or 455 cubic inches and a huge 4bbl carb on top...

If you disable the secondaries on the carb, you STILL have a quite capable car full of ability to sprint from point A to point B.

If on the other hand, you re-enable the secondary butterflies, you now have a whole different animal. Accleration, power, fuel usage, ability to kill yourself all go up. Wayyyyyy up.

I've had my Khorns attached to as few as approx 1 1/2 watts (SE-OTL's) and as many as 400 (dbx BXIII in bridged mode)

Do they BOTH sound great? Well, it depends on how we define "great" They both sound different. The 1 1/2 watts (although I preferred the bridged mode at 4 wpc) puts out clean, beautiful sound that's well articulated. Open & airy come to mind too...

Hit the Niles box and feed in 400 watts of headroom and all the sudden your head is INSIDE the snare drum at full throttle. You want to "BE" the concert???

Dumb? Stupid? Deaf creating?

I'm not going there nor arguing those potential lines of logic.

I'm only saying that they BOTH can sound "good" to the respective listener depending on what the listener might be listening for.

I'm not sure that my 400 bridged watts sound as sweet at 2 wpc because they might have a bit more background noise than the smaller amps. The smaller amps on the other hand, simply can NOT replace that "big" sound & heavy hitting that the larger amp can.

just my .03 (inflation [;)] )

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Let me clarify my point - I'm not saying 400, 600, or a 1000 watts through the RF-7 sounds better or worse than 30, 60 or 100 watts. The only thing I'm trying to say is that a person shouldn't be discouraged from getting RF-7s just because he doesn't have or want the big power amp. My comments are directed at those who are telling people if they don't have at least a 200 watt amp, don't bother with RF-7s. I disagree with that - I've heard the 7s with a Conrad Johnson 30 watt tube amp and they sounded wonderful, but different, than with my Mac. I recognize that difference, but I would't recommend not getting the 7s if all you've got is the Conrad Johnson (we should all be that unlucky!!).

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There are a lot of people who will state that the RF7s are difficult to drive. Many think this means more watts the better. I would say to an owner should be aware that the impediance of the RF7 have recorded dip of around 2.8ohms which could cause problems with real cheap amps or more likely cheap receivers. This is perhaps where a THX ultra rated reciever could provide some performance. For watts to matter (more than say100) your talking about a serious increase to really matter for decibals (which is seperate from the lower ohms) and with their sensitivity IMO having high watts (200+) specifically for the RF7s (as long as the amp can handle low ohms) are not that important. That said IMO, 2watts are not going to work regardless of the speaker for my listening habits.

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Hi....

This is my first foray into higher end audio and I went ahead and bought a new set of RF-7's and am now shopping for amplification. Based on the set up my brother had 30 years ago I tend to lean toward McIntosh but in reading various posts about the type of amp and power requirements for this speaker I'm now somewhat confused on the direction I should go...SS or tubes......lower wattage or big power. I normally listen to music at normal levels but every now and then crank it up but not to the extent where my ears bleed and neighbors from 2 blocks away are calling the cops. I'm looking for a system that would be like sitting on the front row of a live performance, has depth, clarity, stage presence (if that's the right term), good bass and is a thrill to listen to......like one of those systems I read about in here that when you first hear it all you can do is stand there in amazement and go WOW!!!

Would McIntosh provide the things I'm after in a system and if so would the MA-2275 (75 w/ch) be a good choice in tubes or a MA-6900 (200 w/ch) in SS?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated before I plunk out the bucks.

Thanks for your help.

Jack

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When I started the second system I wasn't out for too awful much. I had RB 35s, RS 7s and a RC 7. I bought a relatively cheap Pioneer VSX 1015 receiver. I couldn't stand it and bought a pair of RF 7s to replace the RB 35s. I can tell you that in Direct Stereo mode the 7s alone will crank out some very clean and powerful sound. I know it could probably get better, there's no doubt. But I almost bought RF 35s because I have heard all the impedence/power hungry horror stories and boy am I glad I didn't. The Pioneer is a cheap receiver. Not the crappiest thing out there but it is indeed a cheap receiver. I don't think I'm gonna tell the 7s though cuz they might start sounding like crap. I think some people get talking about different things and the next thing you know there's problems/limitations with a product that may not be totally accurate. It would have been a shame for me to buy the RF 35s instead because of something like that.

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With my RF-7s I'm running 40 wpc from my HK 730 and it more than suits me fine. I know that I would benefit from an amp with more headroom and high wattage rating, but for now I'm fine.

I was glad to get the awesome deal on the speakers and then later down the road I can worry about better amplification.

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I've run my 7's on 100 solid watts and they sound great,really.I've run

em' on 200 watts and there was a small but still an improvement in

bass.As with just about any good speaker the more quality power the

better,imo.So I'd say you don't need 200 watts but 400 would be great.I

have yet to see a speaker I'd own that could not bennefit from more

good power than you'd ever need.

This is no special requirement for 7's,any speakers need the best amp

one can afford.The good thing about Klipsch is you do NOT have to have

massive power as part of the requirement for great sound.

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It's hard for many to understand this with RF-7's, but if you want to go from good to superb, you are going to need an amp with atleast 200wpc or more with a very good amp, not a cheap one!!!!!!!!!! You will hear the difference in many areas, not just volume!!! It is what the RF-7's really need to sing in the superb sound enjoyment. I've been there, done it, and had to do it myself to get to where my RF-7's are today. For the RF-7's to give it's very best, there is no other way around it. It's very much worth it to give what the RF-7's need for it to sing superb from just plain good.

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"It's hard for many to understand this with RF-7's, but if you want to go from good to superb, you are going to need an amp with atleast 200wpc or more with a very good amp, not a cheap one!!!!!!!!!! You will hear the difference in many areas, not just volume!!! It is what the RF-7's really need to sing in the superb sound enjoyment. I've been there, done it, and had to do it myself to get to where my RF-7's are today. For the RF-7's to give it's very best, there is no other way around it. It's very much worth it to give what the RF-7's need for it to sing superb from just plain good. "

Quality, not quantity - both together are nice, only one is necessary.

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Yo, Griff,

Where you been? I haven't seen you around here in quite a while.

How's the back doing for you?

Bruce

Oh I've popped in here and there, but overall I'm not doing much in the

way of forums lately. Trying to focus on getting life rolling again

doesn't leave much time for that. I also have been still recovering

from the disaster last summer (I mentioned it in the general section

when it happened) and haven't been spending much time online as a

result.

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KlipsDude - if I accept your premise that a power source of at least 200 watts is needed to adequately drive the RF-7s, then I must also accept that a tube amp is, in all cases, insufficient power (since there are few, if any, tube amps putting out those kinds of watts) for use with the 7 and, therefore, no one with a tube amp should purchase 7s. I simply refuse to accept that. Again, I'm not saying that powerful amps don't sound good with the 7, I'm simply saying that a good quality amp with less that 200 watts can make the RF-7 "sing" and that people should not be dissuaded from purchasing the 7s simply because they don't own a 400 - 1000 watt rig. This argument, in many ways, spins into the tubes v. SS argument - are you saying that if you've got a tube amp, don't buy RF-7s? I really have to disagree with you on that and think the many people on this Board who enjoy tube amps with their RF-7s would also.

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