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Question about SVS Subwoofers (The EAR, please chime in)


Catharsis147

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Just a question onetwomany since you work for tc sounds,Why is the surround material on the TV 12 driver so paper thin,I have seen 3 ultras and seen cheaper drivers of all sizes have thicker surround material then the tv 12 drivers.Also stated the amps must be under powered like they mention here.I know one ultra owner that was disappointed in the quality and thickness of the surround after pulling it from the tube,He had told others and my self listening to the ultra... That in know way this could be true wattage 525 rms to power the driver,The surround would simply fall out of its aluminum cone.I have also read the drivers tend to bottom out quite often and much easier than a every day subwoofer.

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Hi Paul

having had 3 Ultras (still have two) I have yet to bottom them out.

Do you recall where you read the TV-12 tends to bottom out more often and easier that an everyday subwoofer. I really have tried to bottom the Ultras out but to date have failed to do so and would enjoy reading how people are doing achieving this.

thanks

Scott

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Why is the surround material on the TV 12

driver so paper thin,I have seen 3 ultras and seen cheaper

drivers of all sizes have thicker surround material then the tv 12

drivers.Also stated the amps must be under powered like

they mention here.I know one ultra owner that was disappointed in the

quality and thickness of the surround after pulling it from the

tube,He had told others and my self listening to the

ultra... That in know way this could be true wattage 525 rms to

power the driver,The surround would simply fall out of its

aluminum cone.I have also read the drivers tend to bottom out quite

often and much easier than a every day subwoofer.

What does it matter how thick the surround is? When you consider the

purpose of the surround and notice that the thin surround gets the job

done, then why try to make an issue of it? Has your friend actually

shot the driver off the basket? It's one thing to share the emotions of

others, but it is another thing to share actual experiences.

Btw, just about every subwoofer can be bottomed out....the ones that

can't simply don't have enough power-handling and melt (which is bad

because there really isn't any audible clues before it happens).

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well the overhang designs tend to be called bottomless as with the adire xbl technology are so called bottomless, they will not hit the backplate but they will run out of xmax.

Also the famed adire tumult still uses foam as opposed to rubber. The foam is uv protected to not rot out but the foam has more benefits but people believe that rubber is superior

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I cant recall where i read this about the bottoming driver of the owner,It was on some forum some place,But i was at a home that had a pc ultra from a person i had talked to in a local shop and he invited me over to listen,He was comparing the sub to a b&w sub i believe a 650 or 850.

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I bottomed out my PC-Ultra on many a occasion, very dissapointing! Its a known problem (if thats the word) that I have read about on different forums accross the internet. And the sad thing was: it wasnt even that loud.

SVS should integrate a limiter,any woofer will bottom out if pushed hard.

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I bottomed out my PC-Ultra on many a occasion, very dissapointing! Its a known problem (if thats the word) that I have read about on different forums accross the internet. And the sad thing was: it wasnt even that loud.

Now that you mention this about that the SVS PC ultra that it wasnt even turned up that much and it bottomed.The post i read on some forum also said that the svs sub was way below half volume setting and also the owner set it up with a meter,and It still bottomed.I do know they tested the svs ultra on some UK site cant remember the name of the forum but they also mentioned that their Ultra bottomed,Sounds like SVS have lots of problems.
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Just for reference:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/2/697335/ShowPost.aspx#697335

So what kind of source material are you guys running that is bottoming

your subs out? As in specific tracks and the SPL level. I'm not really

a fan of SVS, but there is absolutely no reason why they should bottom

out unless you're doing something crazy. So maybe there is crazy

subharmonic material that isn't being filtered out...5Hz @ 90dB is a

crap load of excursion.

And no offense Paul, but the source of your information is rather

questionable. I mean come on...I've heard from a friend who read

somewhere that our president is posessed by an alien from a moon off

Jupiter - doesn't make it true though. I do like cheese though. [:)]

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Over at AVtalk there is a post that does state the Ultra bottomed out during the 105db 2M outside test.

Then there was another post that stated the PCU bottomed out constantly with the gain set at half. No data just comments.

Dr Who: cmon look at the president, the decisions he is making are out of this world.

scott

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Over at AVtalk there is a post that does state the Ultra bottomed out during the 105db 2M outside test.

Then there was another post that stated the PCU bottomed out constantly with the gain set at half. No data just comments.

What frequency was that at?

Move the mic to 1M and you're looking at 108dB. Then move the speaker

into a room corner and you're looking at 114dB at 1M for the exact same

excursion. I wonder how that correlates to their advertising.

Dr Who: cmon look at the president, the decisions he is making are out of this world.

[;)]

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Just for reference:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/2/697335/ShowPost.aspx#697335

So what kind of source material are you guys running that is bottoming

your subs out? As in specific tracks and the SPL level. I'm not really

a fan of SVS, but there is absolutely no reason why they should bottom

out unless you're doing something crazy. So maybe there is crazy

subharmonic material that isn't being filtered out...5Hz @ 90dB is a

crap load of excursion.

And no offense Paul, but the source of your information is rather

questionable. I mean come on...I've heard from a friend who read

somewhere that our president is posessed by an alien from a moon off

Jupiter - doesn't make it true though. I do like cheese though. [:)]

why does that link bring me to microsoft.com?

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Just trying to find the post about the ultra bottoming but cant seem to find it any more,I just came across this post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-452404.html
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

SRR03-22-05, 01:44 PM Hay after some movie watching, pod race in DTS (from the ultimate THX demo DVD), and some more music listening, got to say these are great speakers. They can go louder than my previous speakers; which were atlantic tech system 350; with out straining at all. I even managed to bottom out my SVS PC-Ultra before they showed any distress. And they don't have just brawn behind them, they have detail work that my Atlantics never were able to produce. I know Klipsch has really pushed these on custom installers, but dang they sound oh so nice that more people should search these out even if they have to drive a good bit of distance.
ALSO READ HERE ABOUT THE BLOWN ISD DRiVERS
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-564449.html

Read this about the person that also clued in how many svs trolls are on fourms trying to brain wash others into svs subwoofers.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/1041.html

Posted on <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:25 pm:


I would like to start this post by saying that I post from work, I do not have a pc at home and I do not need to be signing up for a forum at work. If anyone wants to doubt who I am I would be more than happy to provide any credentials other than my email address. My name is Eric and I had previously been in an argument with the svs guys or the svs cult as I have called them before. I had previously done a test involving a revel sub and a svs sub. I did not own the svs sub but a friend of mine did. This person specifically asked to not have his name put into a discussion as he had no interest in being a part of it. So of course the svs guys ripped me apart because I didnt drag him into it. Not all people are into confrontation like the svs owners are. I have heard subs that I like better than mine but that doesnt mean I dont like my sub. Would I like it if Kevin Veoks of revel called me to say why do you like this other sub better than your revel or even worse tried to discredit me on a public forum? Hell no that would be so embarrassing! What about warranty work? Do you think my friend would have any interest in calling you to have a problem with his sub fixed after you called him out on a public forum?? No way!! You svs guys and your super customer service have a habit of trying to call people out. I have never in my life heard of such a thing! It is a very poor business move to bring your customers into a discussion simply to try to prove a point. You seem to have a hard time dealing with the fact that you are not the king of the hill, you are not the bass authority, and to me you are nothing more than a very creative marketer. Which I will give you kudos for but I find it sad that so many people have been so mislead about subs from you guys. Your subs are a good product for the price but they are not the end all be all that you make it out to be. Like all svs threads someone had to have a witch hunt called on them and their credibility, I of course was that person. I have not made one post since that svs thread. It pissed me off that bad. When I got my b15 I put up my post saying how cool I thought it was just like any of you would have done. Yet my happiness was quickly turned to anger as every svs owner attempted to point out that I could have save x dollars and that my sub is over priced and sucks blah blah blah! I couldnt even discuss my thoughts on this sub with out getting torn apart. It was so funny that everyone was talking numbers but no one would believe the #s revel gives. How convenient for svs its #s are good but revels are bad, 126db at 30hz is not bs it is truth. In the end all I wanted to do was share my experience yet I couldnt. If you buy something high end people want to tear it down and rationalize why their cheaper sub must be better on most of these forums. I think HTF has gone to hell in regards to discussions about subs. You notice most of the high end guys dont want anything to do with htf anymore. I understand that everyone who is on this and the htf site are here because of a great passion for audio. I just wish that people wouldnt let their passions get the best of them and try to demonize anyone who doesnt agree with them. Dont take that statement as me saying I have never done this because I have, everyone here has. It is just natural to try and defend our or choices. Svs just goes to far. You svs owners that think svs is the bomb need to realize that everything, yes EVERYTHING in life is relative to your experiences and perception. If you think svs is the best it is only because you have yet to hear better. Tom I am calling you out! I would like to put my b15 up against ANY of your subs in my room and another room. Anyone that lives in Columbus would be more than welcome to come join in for the comparison. The only catch is I am not buying the sub to get this to happen. You are more than welcome to come setup the sub yourself or I would even be willing to secure it with my credit card # but I will not spend cash I all ready know the outcome, I got to see it before. The burden of proof is on you. If you are interested I have some friends at a local audio store (genesis audio in Gahanna Ohio) and I could see if we could also do a test in one of their rooms just so no one can try and blame my room for the svs loosing. Also no adding anything to the sub that isnt built in and no sub mods it must be exactly what you would send a buyer. If the svs wins I will right up a formal apology and review stating the facts of how the revel got taken down and you are more than welcome to post it anywhere and everywhere. I will be a good sport about the situation no bs review to make up for the revel loosing if it does. If the revel wins you svs guys let us have our forums back! You stop joining in on threads about subs and let people make up their own minds. You do have a place for support on your own site so dont try and play the we need forums for support card. Anyone that is local or wants to drive to Columbus and has a sub that they want put up against the svs is more than welcome to join in. This is no bs and I am not a troll if you would like to come down and see what real bass sounds like let me know and I will contact you by phone. You are a biased person and at this point so am I, this is the only way this argument will ever be put to rest. SVS owners put up or shut up!
YOU should also read this page as well,One user or member is called SVSUCKS.I always wondered why the owners of svs subwoofers would be on all forums working with their signed up BS members as helpers to sell, and push their subs.And they also claim and state how buzy they are.Really ! . If they were that buzy they/The owners sure wouldnt be spending their time on forums.They would be buzy making them.I sure dont see klipsch and their helpers flooding the net about their subs,They just simply sell them !
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/1041.html
**And how many times i have read this on different forums about people having problems with their svs subs when they get them,SVS always has a excuse either setup or there must be some thing wrong with the sub.And do you also notice how a Anonymous user or helper chimes in on threads to back up SVS, IF they were that good of a sub why would you have problems?

Ron Stimpson

Posted on Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 02:53 pm:


Bassaholic,

Could you have your friend contact us (your address is anonymous unfortunately). If a PC-Plus sounded as you described then clearly something is seriously wrong with it. Through extensive objective testing we know it to have significantly greater undistorted bass capability than the excellent TN1220.


Heres an other post from a member that has caught on about SVS subwoofers.


Pookie Bear
Unregistered guest

Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 03:20 pm:


SVS discovered forum postings and censorship are the best way to sell their warez. For good subs look to b and m stores not a garage company or one in someone's basement. SVS are little more than shitty subwoofers and paying forums to like them.

Think Harder Tom
Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 03:35 pm:


Whenever a subwoofer post comes up you can always count on 1 of you guys posting. It is never when the post is full of irrational exuberance for your product. God forbid you tell the poster your product is not the holy grail. It is always when someone has a negative comment. You call in to question the test methods of the review the poster has used. Yet when the review has positive comments the methods are never called into question and are plastered over your web site out of context just to hype the product.

One Seismic beats up on 2 ultras,The ultras bottom out.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-145240.html
An other Blown SVS driver
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=47825
Bottomed out SVS 16-46CS
http://archive.audioreview.com/00/0EE8C8A7.php

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I know this is a Klipsch forum but I wanted to post some unsolicited info on SVS. I am just a customer, no relation in any way shape or form to the SVS team.

Better yet, here's the long review that I wrote up (my non professional layman's version of things):


I've had the SVS PB 12 Plus /2 for not quite a month yet, and have probably dedicated around 50 hours or so to listening and testing so far. In short, this thing is so killer, never before have I heard anything anywhere that puts out this level of sound in the 15-25hz range in the home.


Room Info: my room is huge, unfortunately, 30x30, ceiling sloping to 14ft, with 3 LARGE openings that cannot be closed off (hallways, opening to kitchen, opening to foyer, etc.). I thought that was really going to limit the performance of any sub that I chose, so my expectations were somewhat limited.

Bass Experience: over the past 15 years I've had literally dozens of car bass systems ranging from simple 10" / 300w setups to multiple 12's and 15's with all the power needed to make noses run and ears bleed (upgraded alternators, capacitors, amps, etc.). Multiple IASCA / USAC winner "back in the day".

Overall Impressions: extremely impressive in every way. Granted, in a large open room we will always have a hard time matching the 40-50hz standard rap 'bump' output levels that we can get with a properly loaded car system, and so don't expect this box to rival well done car systems in those higher bass ranges. For instance, in several back to back tests this month, the 40-60hz range of this sub blows away my Yukon's JL 10W3, but doesn't quite match my Blazer's 15" vented sub box and 600w amp. Where it literally knocks your socks off though is in the lower registers, below 30hz it really starts to shine, and those inaudible sub 20hz tones are just magical... when you feel like you are in an airplane because your ears are 'popping' and your pants leg is vibrating, but you don't hear any distorted overtones; it's just awesome.


Musical selections, Reference / Rap: any Telarc disc I put in shined, from Carmina Burana (was I actually inside the drum?) to Star Tracks (just over 1:00 in the Planet Krypton get very interesting, and track 2, Back to the Future has some recurring strong 30hz to 20hz notes that are just amazing) to the T-Rex from Jurrasic Park, all of those old favorites... it was like listening to them again for the first time. I broke down and threw in Techmaster P.E.B, track 12 of course, one of my 4" canned lights blew out in the ceiling, no joke. Next up, more digital bass from the mid 90's, things I had to dust off that I haven't heard in ten years; Nightmare on Bass Street, Toxic Bass, Quad Force, DJ Magic Mike, some of the songs making me laugh at how silly they were, but then making my eyes tear up from how strong the low bass notes were. At some point during one of the Bass Mechanik songs, a large (3' x 3') framed picture over the fireplace tilted to the left a FULL 4", I have since reinforced the mounting. Musical selections, Rock: time for some rock, Aerosmith, then Metallica's black album, during Enter Sandman apparently my wife returned from the grocery store with arms full of bags. Somehow, I had missed 4 phone calls from her, and had not heard her ringing the doorbell a dozen times. She was not a happy camper, oh well. Rock sounded incredible, all the low bass foundation that my system has been needing is now there. Also listened to some good old NIN, Fiona Apple (man there are some subsonic tones there!), Madonna (thought I was back in a club in the late 90's).

TV and Movies: I haven't had as much time to watch movies as I would have liked, most of the listening I've done has been devoted to music. We did watch "Stealth" with Jessica something (Alba or Biel? I get them confused), Batman Begins, and a few more action flicks, etc. Again, this is where this sub really comes out of it's shell, any explosion, sound effect, LFE's just come out sounding the way the director intended. I've also noticed that there are a LOT of shows on cable that have a good amount of bass. Pretty much anything on MTV (Pimp my Ride,regular music videos of course, etc.), and also a lot of stuff on Speed channel and other car / bike related shows have a lot of added depth now as well.

OVERALL.... wow, best money I've spent on my system in a long time, well, probably ever. I can't believe I waited this long, I will be adding an Audio Control Epicenter / Phase Coupled Activator to my home system (have used them in the car systems for years - they are amazing) and I can't wait to re-audition a few dozen of my favortie CD's with added bass information reproduced in the lowest bass octave.

CUSTOMER SERVICE: I can't finish my review without noting the courtesy, promptness, and friendliness of the entire SVS staff. All of my emails were answered within a day (usually within the hour), my extensive questions were all completely answered, and service / tech support after the sale has been flawless and extremely resonsive.



FOOTNOTE >> I have since added an Audio Control Epicenter and the sub has responded amazingly well to the added 20-40hz tones being created. After 3 months of pounding, I have no regrets about this sub at all.

thanks,
John
jhelms
johnhelms@firsthorizon.com

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Here you go guys,New member signed up.as explained about the SVS pushers,Pure example up above.They sign up on every site and work for the company.Sorry we love our klipsch ! And this is a Klipsch forum ! Read above about the person that also clued in how many svs trolls are on fourms trying to brain wash others into svs subwoofers.

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Paul:

There are plenty of Klipsch forum members in here who own Klipsch speakers and consciously chose (and love) SVS subs. Posters like you, however, are a primary reason why many Klipsch/SVS owners no longer bother to share their opinions in support of SVS subs in the subwoofer forum.

Because the moment Klipsch forum members share honest opinions about a choice of a SVS sub (i.e. Scott, etc.) - there often comes along a poster warning of SVS trolls, overzealous SVS fans - and reminding us that this is "Klipsch forum."

We get it - you are not a big fan of SVS - and are here to bash the product and its owners. I am the first to admit that there are some SVS owners that are over the top as SVS advocates. But.....there are other loyal SVS owners who own Klipsch speakers and made a deliberate audio decision to go SVS.

Remind us, what subwoofer do you own since you do not have a profile??? Do you own a Klipsch sub? After all, we would like to know what sub experiences you have had instead of - simply repeating what you've heard on other forums. I think that is called double (or even triple) hearsay.

Carl.

P.S. For the record, I own two SVS subs and love both of them. Never had a driver bottom out and never blown a driver. SVS subs anchor both of my Klipsch systems. A PB2/ISD does nice back up duty with my Belles. And yes, I've been a regular Klipsch forum member - and am not a SVS "troll." I have also owned HSU and Klipsch subs.

Mr. original poster - go with a single "Ultra." A PB2 Ultra would be even better if you can swing the cost and accomodate the large "box."

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