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Building the ultimate Cornwalls


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I'm interested in building a set of Cornwalls. I have an old cabinet to pattern it from, but would like to hear everyones ideas on building the ultimate DIY Cornwall. I know there are a number of upgrades to factory stuff including crossovers tweeters etc. I'd like to hear from all including components and cabinet mods. Give me your ultimate.

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There would be no way I could put all my thoughts on this in one post. I have spent over one year coming up with ways to make a Cornwall bass bin better ot reproduce it in a different shape.

You probably need to think of what you liked about the Cornwall as there are many ways to change some stuff to give a slight improvemnet in different areas.

Some things to think about:

Are you wanting to use the original driver?

Are you wanting to use the same midhorn?

Do you want a one cabinet design that includes all drivers or have a seperate top section?

Do you want the same shape such that it remains the same width and height?

Want to make Custom grills or want a "decorator" look?

Do you want to change any crossover points such as bring down the mid crossover lower than 600Hz?

BIggest of all...how much do you you want to spend on the entire project?

jc

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For building "ultimate" Cornwalls in stock cabs, I'd have some recommendations. (at least my view for "ultimate" Cornwalls)

For parts you are pretty much limited to Ebay unless you take advantage of what some forum members can offer. Klipsch parts can help, but their mission is not really to service DIYers. Bob Crites can actually offer one stop shopping on your parts. I'd suggest to contact him directly.

Browsing the forum, you'll run across several thread on Cornscala, which is a diy creation using a ported bass bin of similar volume to CW and in addition to that, it used the K400 mid horn which makes it a best of both worlds kind of speaker. One of the shortcomings of a CW is the K600 horn and crossover at 600hz. The Cornscala offers the smooth mid of LaScalas and Khorns. It's cab though, is definitely not in the profile of the CW. Problem with the CW cab is that it is not deep enough to accomodate the K400 horn. Bob has found an alternate 400hz horn which could be used in a CW cab which would give one the Cornscala hybrid sound in a cab of CW dimension. That would be a very nice speaker, IMO.

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Are you wanting to use the original driver? Not especially, only if it is a general concensus that one should utilize original pieces. My cabinet is empty so I would need to buy everything

Are you wanting to use the same midhorn? Not especially, if building the ultimate is to fill the cabinet with OEM pieces then so be it, but I see Crites and others developing better tweeters, networks, etc so I have to assume there is a better cornwall out there waiting to be built.

Do you want a one cabinet design that includes all drivers or have a seperate top section? I think it could be either way, it would be nice to have seperates so one could tune in a room a little better.

Do you want the same shape such that it remains the same width and height? Nope, but again I guess keep the same spirit , it shouldn't morph itself into a corner horn (natural evolution path).

Want to make Custom grills or want a "decorator" look? I guess it would depend on the final incarnation, I like the decorator look, maybe cone covered with mesh cloth and the horn section exposed?

Do you want to change any crossover points such as bring down the mid crossover lower than 600Hz? I would think it might be a good thing to drop the crossover point down a little bit.

BIggest of all...how much do you you want to spend on the entire project? Lets say $2000 in parts tops for the pair.

I Know Crites has built crossovers and a nice looking tweeter. I don't know if those tweeters would be appropriate in a cornwall or not. I searched the sight here and in the 2-way forum and couldn't find a lot of coverage on Cornwall mods.

I thought it would be interesting to here peoples thoughts. Forget what I'm after, how would YOUR ultimate cornwall be put together. Let me reword it .... ' Describe the Perfect Woman ' GO! Thanks again fo the input, I do appreciate it.

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I Know Crites has built crossovers and a nice looking tweeter. I don't know if those tweeters would be appropriate in a cornwall or not. I searched the sight here and in the 2-way forum and couldn't find a lot of coverage on Cornwall mods.

Bob's CT125 tweeters are very appropriate in Cornwalls. I have a pair in my '79s and am very happy with the results so far. They are running on recapped stock Type B networks at the momment. However, by the middle of next week, I will be installing Bob's little, simple and completely reversable 4500Hz kit to lower the crossover point of the squawker and tweeter to 4500Hz.

Apparently there are a couple of other Cornwall owners that have performed this mod but never reported on the results. I on the other hand will be doing a full tutorial with plenty of pics.

But yes, I'd highly suggest going with Bob's tweeters.

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My ballpark estimate on the parts, as Bob has laid them out..

woofers $200 for the pair

tweeters $150 for the pair

Mid driver and horn under $400 for the pair (this could be high) but I'm not sure

Crossovers something around $200

$950 or so for all new parts. plus the cabs

That would make one very nice sounding pair of speakers.

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So from your post, it sounds as you already have the cabinet. Please let me know this as this is already leading you down a certain path. The reason is that you will not have a lot of options to change the midhorn. Bob's Horn I haven't heard but, if my memory recalls, it requires a slightly deeper cabinet and slightly more volume as that horn has more "space displacement" vs the K600/K601.

Again, let us know this as you will get a bunch of ideas/options thrown at you that you won't be able to utilize.

I have built three pairs of speakers that in MOO are better than the Cornwall. They are a Morph, as you say, from the Cornwall. Bob has done the same. The Cornscala is a favorite for the most simple morph as it sounds like a cornwall with a better midhorn. If you were to read all those posts in the past comparing the Corn to other klipsch speakers...such as the La Scala, it always loses in the midhorn area and typically wins in the bass area. However, some like the sound of La Scala bass...I'm not one of them. Guys please don't start this discussion...not my reason for this post.

Now, my last project, which is almost complete, was to build a Cornwall...not a Cornscala that would be as good or better than the Cornwall 3. I haven't heard that speaker so I can't make the real comparison but I can speculate knowing what I know. However, the cabinet was tall and skinny to give it a more appealing look to the spouse. The same thing can be done with a different shape cabinet but WON'T work with a Cornwall cabinet. You would have to build a seperate top section.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/705763.aspx

Here is the links to the other pairs of speakers I've built. You may want to read them as multiple ieas of what works best for Cornwall modification are discussed there.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/567995.aspx

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/542050.aspx

For $2000, you could go nuts and get whatever you want...However, it would be hard to put that much money in a Standard Cornwall cabinet unless you bought some pretty pricey drivers that I don't believe have been used for the Cornwall before.

jc

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I am very fond of Mr. K's Trachorn. I would like to see it show up in some of these diy Cornwall/La Scala type layouts. I know it would not fit depth wise in a stock Cornwall configuration. I strongly feel the Trachorn bested the Altec 511's I was using with my Khorns.

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jc, Yes, the big mid horn makes the cabinet grow by 1/4 inch in depth.

Is that front mounted or rear mounted on the motorboard?

I know that with the stock K-600 and K55-V, the driver is mashed up against the acoustic padding on the rear panel already.

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Chops,

Rear mounted.

The cabinet needs to grow by 1/4 inch depth, not because of the length of the horn and driver but because of the volume the larger horn takes up. The large horn is shorter than the K-600.

Bob

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This package of parts would be better used in a "scratch" built Cornwall/Cornscala. The neat thing about these parts is that they are not from Klipsch. That gets you around Klipsch not wanting to sell parts to someone who is building speakers.

Bob Crites

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chops,

Leave your Cornwalls OEM. Build a top box (with or without riser) and put Bob's squawker horn, the Crites tweeter, and Bob's CS II crossover in the top box. Take the K-55 out of the Corn and screw it on Bob's squawker horn. Plug the K-600 horn throat. Bypass the crossover in the Corn and wire the woofer directly to the input connector. Your OEM Corn will only be used as a woofer and will wire to the crossover in the top box.

Now you have the best of both worlds! Elevated horns with Bob's Cornscala II setup and OEM Corns that can be restored to original very easily. Putting the horns on top of the Corn make a huge difference in the sound stage (at least in my room).

I have already done one pair like this and they are my second favorite speaker. K-Horn #1.

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chops,

Leave your Cornwalls OEM. Build a top box (with or without riser) and put Bob's squawker horn, the Crites tweeter, and Bob's CS II crossover in the top box. Take the K-55 out of the Corn and screw it on Bob's squawker horn. Plug the K-600 horn throat. Bypass the crossover in the Corn and wire the woofer directly to the input connector. Your OEM Corn will only be used as a woofer and will wire to the crossover in the top box.

Now you have the best of both worlds! Elevated horns with Bob's Cornscala II setup and OEM Corns that can be restored to original very easily. Putting the horns on top of the Corn make a huge difference in the sound stage (at least in my room).

I have already done one pair like this and they are my second favorite speaker. K-Horn #1.

Hey, this sounds very promising! Thanks! I do have a few questions though...

1) Would I really want to K33-E to play all the way out without being crossed over at some point?

2) Would having the tweeter mounted above or below the mid be better at that height?

3) What are these CS II networks you speak of?

And just an FYI, I would never hack into my CWs. [;)]

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chops,

1) The K-33 wires to the oem terminal strip, then to the crossover in the top box. It doesn't run full-range.

2) Because of the height of Bob's squawker (10 5/8"), I would mount the tweeter vertically next to the squawker in a mirrored configuration.

3) the " CS II " crossover is Bob's version of a "B" crossover, modified to cross at 400 and 4500.

If I have attached the pic correctly, an artists rendition should follow. The oem tweeter and squawker are included for visual reference, but not used in the CS II. The total height is about 52", the same as the K-Horn.

post-16963-13819286854022_thumb.gif

post-16963-13819291118072_thumb.gif

post-16963-1381929508051_thumb.gif

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My "dream cornwall" would be a 2-way design. Probably something like a 4" compression driver on a solid oak 2" throat tractrix style 90x40 constant directivity horn, covering 800-20kHz+ (the driver would have a natural roll-off as a reverse approach to natural CD EQ). For bass I would go with dual 15" woofers, partial horn (old altec style) bass reflex tuned to 30Hz (so covering 30 to 800Hz). Sensitivity should be held above 100dB.

A more reasonable approach would be a 3-way design: bi-radial tweeter, tractrix midrange with 2" throat and single or dual 15" woofer (depending on budget and size constraints).

You'll notice that most of the custom horns implented by guys on the forum tend to be 1.4" due to the K-55V being of that type. But because you aren't going that high in frequency with the squaker I would be more inclined to target a 2" throat - there are more drivers and horns available on the market.

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