What Behringer DEQ2496 Says About My Room - (pic)

[meagain]

Here's the reading of my room at our listening position (which is behind sweet spot).

(Pictures now added below on this page)

[LarryC]

Here's the reading of my room at our listening position (which is behind sweet spot).

Just a red "x", huh? I knew this was too good to be true!

[meagain]

grrrrr! Can't post a pic. Will bet anything the forum's going down again soon. It's about that time.

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[wuzzzer]

Red X means the Behringer thinks there's treasure buried under your carpet?

[meagain]

I'd probably take that cash and try some of those bowling ball B&W's at this point. []

We talked to Mike2b??? on the phone (the Behringer DEQ expert). I now better understand where to hang stuff in the room as a test for reflections, etc. Sure wish I could post my pic of the frequency dips/peaks.

For tweaking via the Behringer, I'm inclined to only mess with the irritating high bits. But I don't think this will help my issue at all. I sure hope I'm wrong.

I 'am' starting to think that we just don't like this squawker horn. Hubby and I share the same feelings about the sound out of this khorn though he actually has a lower threshold of tolerance than I. You know, it would help if Al's trachorn or any other offerings out there, were available in a plug 'n play size. I 'am' curious about it.

I might experiment with hanging some old comforters & crap tomorrow on the walls, etc. for a test. Secretly, I hope they make no difference as even 'I' have a WAF in me.

[jt1stcav]

I can see you using some comforters or old blankets on the walls to hear any affects, but don't use crap...it's so hard to clean up afterwards, and the smell...PU![+o(]

Seriously, hanging comforters should indeed make a difference IMO. Auralex Acoustics is a manufacturer of high-end acoustic sound absorption panels (sold at all Guitar Center stores) that can also be displayed artistically to your walls so it doesn't look like a recording studio. For instance, SonoFiber panels can be used in various patterns on your walls that actually look nice...see:

http://www.auralex.com/sound_absorption_sonofiber/sound_absorption_sonofiber.asp

There are other panels that come in various colors. I'd post a pic of some used in a HT listening room, but this lousy server won't post pics at the moment! Check out their website for all their panels...this may be all you need to fine tune your room.

[sheltie dave]

Given the higher quality of the equipment you are using, you don't like the Klipsch heritage sound. Admit it, sell 'em, and move on to find what you do like.

There is no shame to it. It is a fact some people do not like horn speakers. You probably are in that group.

[DeanG Crossovers]

Poor placement doesn't help matters.

It is a fact some people do not like horn speakers

I suggested that possibility myself.

[meagain]

Maybe. What we need to do is hear khorns somewhere else. There's an audio store near here that I've been meaning to get to for months. Khorns in a small room. Now that I have a handle on outdoor spring cleanup here, hopefully we can get over there soon with our CDs. I think doing this might help immensely, assuming they have them sounding proper.

[sheltie dave]

Lisa, why don't you try to post the spectrum now?

[meagain]

With Dean's crossovers on tap 5/2. Mic is where we sit (behind sweet spot).

[meagain]

on crossover tap 4/x

[meagain]

Here's a more condensed, cliff notes version. Tap 4/x. The noise wasn't very loud.

[Colin]

Not too bad, a lot of rolling bumps and dips, no major suck-outs, but of course, there is that classic Klipsch hill in the upper mid-range that leads the harsh sound, and there is the shelved-down area of the mid, which people describe as recessed, all of this should be easy to smooth out with the auto-EQ function, I would love to see the afterward pics too

the condesned version looks like there is a problem at 630Hz...

And this is what size room? With what front-end? And which spks?

[H]

[sfogg]

Try a measurement a meter away from the K'Horns with the mic between the K400 and the tweeter.

Will give a little bit better of an idea if the hottness up top is in the speaker itself or the result of a bright room.

Also... keep in mind... a 1/3 octave RTA is doing a bit of averaging to what you are seeing. Better then not seeing anything but they don't give all the information that there is to see about a room.

Shawn

[DeanG Crossovers]

What Shawn and Colin said.

The first two pictures look "normal" to me. Big disparity between the first two pics and the "condensed" version, any ideas why?

[PrestonTom]

I am glad to see some measurement is finally taking place. I think it beats the qualitative descriptors (e.g., the sound is "card boardy" etc).

As the mic gets closer to the cabinet, the response will become less dependent on the room (the reflections are relatively attenuated). I am glad you posted the pics. It demonstrates very nicely that we should worry most about the speaker & room as a "system".

It also demonstrates that the speaker/room (system) has a much stronger effect than which taps you are using on the xover (that accounts fo only a couple of dB - a real effect, but pales in comparison to the room's contribution).

Please keep in mind that although the frequncy description is important, it is only one piece. The other important descriptor is temporal. This includes "ringing" (which also has a consequence for the freq domain) and reverberation. The equalizer will have less impact on temporal anomalies. These should be minimized (if they are excessive) by treating the room. Fortunately, many of the treatments that help with the temporal anomalies (reverberation, etc) will also help with the frequency anomalies (standing waves, etc).

Of course, I have glossed over a number of details.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[sfogg]

"Big disparity between the first two pics and the "condensed" version, any ideas why?"

Different vertical scale.....

Shawn

[sfogg]

" the response will become less dependent on the room (the reflections are relatively attenuated). I am glad you posted the pics. It demonstrates very nicely that we should worry most about the speaker & room as a "system"."

Agreed. The end result that matters is the overall systems response.

The reason I wanted to see the response from the speaker from a fairly close measurement is to see if that big peaking in the treble (which would likely sound hard/edgy/honry (but not in a good way)) is coming from the speaker itself, or if it is from reflections within the room. With just one RTA measurement we can't really tell which it is yet.

The reason why that is good to know is so that the source of the problem can be treated more effectively.

If for example the tweeter really did have that much more output then either some EQ to drop the tweeters level or attenuation on the tweeter itself could help a lot. If the speaker looks flatter when measured closer then the tilted up high FR is caused from excessive HF reflections within the room. Some treatments in the room would be a better approach to dealing with that.

Shawn

[meagain]

sfogg - I agree we need to take individual readings of each speaker. Hubby's in charge of the Behringer department. I only had a basic working knowledge of it but haven't touched it in months. I can probably pull off running the RTA on each but am testing Chorus II's that I bought yesterday. I'll probably try to walk them out of the room. (Gee - tighter, more balanced bass than Cornwalls? Horn is a bit funky tho.)

We've played with toeing out the khorns as well as toeing just the horn section. The quality didn't change, only the imaging. I've also turned off one speaker and stood 3-4 feet away with my head at horn level. No improvement. Hence, I've always been skeptical the room is causing this, but still open to the concept. At least pending running these tests.