mikebse2a3 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Shawn Just checked the manual and it is the Bandwidth of the Bandpass Filter so edge to edge is correct. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 " I don't think I'm capable of taking that whole section down -6db with the peq." I know, I don't want you to take the whole thing down 6dB. I want the PEQ to basically make a dip that is roughly the inverse of the peaking part of the tweeters response. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 OK - and you want it to spread from about 6k to 10-12k - yes? Then I need to put a peak in the middle of that at -6db, then it should carry the rest of it down a bit and taper at the ends. At least this is currently the only way I know how to use this peq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 "OK - and you want it to spread from about 6k to 10-12k - yes?" Roughly that range. That is around where the tweeter is the most peaky from your measurements. The center frequency is the frequency the filter is based at. The gain/depth is how much it is adding/removing at the center frequency point. The bandwidth setting adjusts how wide a range of influence the filter has. "Then I need to put a peak in the middle of that at -6db, then it should carry the rest of it down a bit and taper at the ends." Exactly. It will look sort of like an upside down bell. The idea being the peak on the tweeter sort of looks like a bell too. The attempt is to basically make the mirror image of that to try and flatten out the tweeters response and to see how that sounds. Give it a shot and see what you think. If it needs further tweaking that is easy enough to do. Doing this remotely isn't as easy as if I was standing in the room. EDIT: BTW... be sure all the other filters in the Behringer are set to flat/off. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Before tweeter tweek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 After tweeter tweek. (took a bit more work than just pulling down -6db in the middle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 2 pics on how I got there... (probably the sloppy way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 ????? How does it sound??? With music, not pink noise. You've probably had so much pink in the past two days that you will never wear it again![] Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm thinking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Uh oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Don't go too crazy trying to get it perfectly flat if you move the mic it may no longer look so flat. The main thing is to pull down that big peak. Having said that... since you have already dialed it in to relatively flat response... how does it sound? Don't be afraid to drop the high end off some more too. If that is what you like that is what you like. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Some of my perceptions make no sense so I won't post them. LOL I have to get used to it, but I think I like this. It's very different. I'm also on taps 5/2 which I've not been on in a month so that's added to the mix. More mid-rangey. Though I wonder here & there if I'm missing a bit.... listening to horns now. Big band stuff. (Can I kill whoever invented muted trumpet?)... A flute section seemed a bit too chilled out. Like - it should have been a tad more foreward. A few things here and there like that. Vocal very forward. I think I'm on the right track though! Oh, some areas seem maybe less dramatic? And maybe I'm detecting more bass cuz the highs are toned down a bit? Does the chart above look like I did it OK? I'm sure there's a proper, cleaner, neater way to have done this but my skills are pretty non-existant on this thing. I think maybe I should bring up 4k? IDK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Maybe it's too flat? I think Mike told me when I got this gadget that I shouldn't do too big of a increase/decrease. Maybe I did too much. I think so. I'm going to bypass the peq and relisten. Starting to wonder if some of these horns aren't sounding as 'real'? Though I fail to see how what I did would do that so I'm likely halucinating things how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 "I have to get used to it, but I think I like this." Better then hating it! "It's very different." You made two fairly dramatic changes. Getting the squawkers in phase and adjusting the tweeters response. "And maybe I'm detecting more bass cuz the highs are toned down a bit?" The tonal balance has shifted so that doesn't seem odd to me at all. "Does the chart above look like I did it OK? " Yes, that looks good... the key is the sound though. "I think maybe I should bring up 4k?" I wouldn't. You should tend to limit your EQing to dialing down peaks. You shouldn't try to fill in dips too much. You might move your 6kish EQ up in frequency a little (or reduce the depth) and see if the 4k range comes back up. The EQ might be pulling that down a little. ALSO... it is very tempting to try and go out and fix *everything* when one starts working with an EQ. Resist the urge. Trying to do to much will likely screw up the sound badly. You made a couple of big changes. Spend some time just listening as is to see what you think after getting some hours on the setup. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Well - IDK about getting the squawkers in phase. They are wired as is proper. Every time I checked the phase thing I was 100% convinced it was either in phase or out of phase. It's like they shifted on me constantly. Like the phase moves. I'll try that again tomorrow with fresher ears. Shawn - I'm curious as to what you would have done on paper for that tweeter section. Not sure I trust my ears on it. I think alot of this stuff - you get used to. I don't want to get used to it if it's screwed up a bit. I'll try eeking up that 6k to -6. Maybe I tackled it too early on the hump. Just now when I reran the RTA with the peq running - there's a hump around 8k that wasn't there before. Not sure where it came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 "Well - IDK about getting the squawkers in phase. They are wired as is proper" You may still want to check how they are wired at the crossover. It's possible to invert polarity at that level, even though to you it really looks to be correct. This happened to me once with a pair of networks I made a couple of years ago. It's a very easy thing to remedy. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Erik - How the phase thing got started is... Sfogg suggested I run a phase test and I happen to have the Avia disk. When I run it with all drivers hooked up - it sounds in phase. When I disconnected the woofers & ran it - I felt they were definitely out of phase. I reversed the squawker taps on one of the crossovers - felt it was in phase. When the Avia disk showed 'out of phase', I heard the sound coming from my center channel (which was of course turned off). The problem was when I repeated it a few times, I learned that my ears had to be in this one pristine position and moving only a couple inches changed the whole experience. Then I started getting all convoluted, burned out, and overthinking it. When I tested only the tweeters - I couldn't tell at all. So now I'm thinking (and for all I know I already did this but forgot)... testing only the squawkers for phase cuz the tweeters make it difficult to tell? I'm hopeinig my brain/ears have rested enough overnight and I can make a verdict on squawker phase this morning. Then I hope to clean up my tweeks to the tweeter section. I think I did it 'messily'. Guys - Mike and Sfogg - You mentioned getting the specific hz test tones. As of late last night I have the 400 hz and a few others. Maybe 100 & 1000 hz also. Not exactly sure what to do with them or what they will reveal. Maybe that will help me determine phase also. I appreciate everyone's help on this. It's interesting stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Ear fatigue is very easy to get, where all of a sudden your changes start to sound the same. I'm surprised you've been able to keep going at things as long as you do, and some of your confusing periods sounded like ear fatigue to me. When you sense that happening, taking several hours off or an overnight break is the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Good point Larry. Recently read about the quickly deafening Pete Townsend from the Who. He rests for 36 hours plus between critical mix sessions. M- it looks to me that although your PEQ work has indeed 'flattened' that tweeter bump, looking at your PEQ 'fix' curve, it seems to be very narrow. I'm not familiar with your unit, but most Parametrics offer at least variable center points, volume, and 'Q', or WIDTH of the notch or boost. See if there is a control for this aspect on your unit, you might get better results with a wider notch in this case. I'd also look after a couple of those low/mid anomalies since you seemed determined to obtain scientific 'flatness' Would also suggest that you then hide the display from view and just spend a couple weeks LISTENING to the system, without constant tweaking. You've got to be getting exhausted from all your efforts. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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