maxg Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Well it has been something of a revolution rather than an evolution over the last week or so. Having gone to a local audio show and spent some time listening to various SACD players (which outnumbered DVD audio players 5 to 1) I decided to take the plunge and go get a unit. As I am still not 100% sure that SACD will take off I compromised and got a combo SACD / DVD video player - the Sony NS900V in silver. This way I have managed to replace, finally, my long serving Denon 3000 first generation DVD player. Initial implementation was a breeze. Unplug the Denon from the stereo ouputs (RCA's) and the SCART adapter and replace with the Sony. As my whole system has been stereo only for some time I did not have the complexity of multi-channel or digital connections. Until yesterday all of my listening was stereo. The difference from Cd is dramatic but also incredibly difficult to describe. I think I can summarise it as follows, listening to CD leaves me feeling rather irritated after a while, something is missing, or something is very artificial and it is only obvious when you compare it to another source. I remember way back in 1984 when I first got a CD player. I had always listened to Records till that point. Changing to CD my first reaction was - that sounds bizzare - something is missing. I put it down to the absence of hiss and over time got used to the CD sound. Switching to SACD gave me a similar - this is bizzare experience, but that very quickly change to a - my god, this is how it is meant to sound experience. I should point out that the quality of CD play on the Sony was extremely poor, until I discovered the "CD Direct" option which improved things dramatically. Even with this option on however, the Sony is no match for my Marantz CD 6000 and so that has been my selected comparion source for SACD. Whilst the unit does not, IMHO, do a particularly good job on CDs the same cannot be said for DVDs. It has made an enormous difference to the DVD watching experience with the major improvment being the picture quality and mirriad controls. Sound is on a par with the Denon, maybe a tad better in stereo. On friday night I was sitting listening to the unit late and pondering on the possibility of setting up a surround sound system to test multi-channel once again (a couple of the SACDs I have picked up over the week offer the surround sound option). It ocurred to me that, as the Sony has a built in decoder (but no volume control) I could use my existing amps to create at least a 4 channel surround sound (I dont own a sub - yet). A friend had left me a pair of home built speakers so I decided to use those. Yesterday I picked up about 100 feet of semi reasonable speaker cable and a pair of rather good interconnects. I then set about a rather clever (even if I do say it myself) cabling job as follows: Using RCA connections throughout I connected the pre-amp of the monoblock tubes to the FRONT channel outs of the Sony. I then connected the stereo channel out of the Sony to the Accuphase. This allows me to play stereo on either amp without using a Y connector. Then I connected the rear channel from the Sony to the Tape in (the only free input on the accuphase I had left). Finally I ran the new cable from speaker B outputs on the Accuphase round to the borrowed rear speakers. To my amazement this has worked a charm. I can listen to the main stereo signal through either amp as I said, whilst, being able to listen to the front channel through the tubes and the rear channel through the accuphase simultaneously. I can even set the system to play the main stereo channel through the "rears" of the accuphase, or, through all 4 speakers on the accuphase and whop knows what else. Having 2 amps to control the front and rear channel provides me with total control of the sound (balance and volume) without resource to the complex menus on the Sony. So, how does it sound? Well, initially weird, really strange. The trick is to forget all about speakers and just let the musical experience flow over you. As soon as you can achieve this you realise - this is the most incredible music experience I have ever had in a home. Forget all about being enveloped by the music and the usual cliches this is music without limits. Forget speakers, systems, watts, digitial and all the rest of it. Just listen to the music. The only problem you will find is that there are very few surround sound SACD titles out there as yet and going back to stereo is a somewhat anaemic experience. Soon I will write about the music played and the different results obtained. Suffice to say, at this stage, that if you are a lover of classical music this is THE medium for you. Get your hands on a surround sound classical track or two and welcome to the gates of heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 SACD is very promising,every time I listen to SACD CD's I am transported,the music is there.Hope SACD takes off and soars high. This will be a reality if inexpensive SACD/DVD AUDIO and DVD will be combined in a single player below $500US.Its possible So far good(ahem audiophile,snooty me) SACD players cost from $1500(Sony)to around $5000(Sony,Pioneer).And there are some more exclusive designs from Marantz and company. Enjoy your new player TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 6, 2001 Author Share Posted November 6, 2001 $1500 sounds a bit high for entry level SACD/DVD players. My player is the Sony NP900 SACD/DVD/CD player and cost 213,000 GRD which is about $560 - just about in the price range you were talking about. It does not, unfortunately, play DVDa. In fact, as yet, I have not heard DVDa at all here. Seems that the number of players on the marketplace for DVDa is about 1/5th of those for SACD. This is despite the fact the DVDa is actually available in more places as software than SACD currently is. The next few months of this battle should prove interesting. Whilst I would prefer that SACD wins out, purely due to my own investment (so selfish) I hope that at least one of them does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 ok....sony has introduced a few dvd/sacd players now of which i bought one for $300.00!!! incredible sound....i had an expensive dvd player that i just sold to someone in my work and this $300 sony player sounds just as good on all dvd dts digital discs....now the great part....everyone listen up...sony has launched a major war now against dvd audio players and i believe will become the format that will replace regular cds someday soon!! incredible sound quality with lifelike sound and dynamic range that surpasses some of the best recorded cds ever!! i am new to sacd but believe me its got the detailed warm rich sound that audiophiles been lookin for for over 18 yrs of digital audio!! now for only $300 bucks!! you know what? i might even add a dvdA player too if they are inexpensive enough....sacd currently has 4 times as many titles out as dvd audio discs and only 50 or 60 of them are surround though so dvd audio has done a little better there..last year entry level players like this were what $1500 at least?? sony is hell bent that they will win this war on the format that will succeed the cd....and yes the new sony sacd players all have nice bass management in the setup menu so you dont have to worry anymore about no bass management!!!..enjoy!!! ------------------ my equipment: klipsch rf-3 (main) klipsch center ch speaker boston acoustics (rear) mirage ss-1500 subwoofer yamaha 795 receiver driving center and rears parasound hca-1500 amp driving rf-3s mirage subwoofer 1500 watts! sony 650 dvd/cd player sony minidisc/cd player combo panasonic hifi vcr waiting to see what new reference line will sound like in 2001!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 Think that that goes down as ful agreement. I am getting more and more impressed with SACD as I listen to it, especially in multi-channel. I am waiting for another 6 titles on order from the net which will hopefully arrive either today or tomorrow. Never thought I would say this but - GO SONY!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Ya'll are very fortunate to be able to find multi-channel CD's. In a city the size of Shreveport I just get blank stares,and shrugged sholders. One salesman in Discjockey told me I could probably find one at Radio Shack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 If you are not averse to buying on line you can pick up multi-channel SACDs at: www.amazon.com - although its not always easy to identify which are multi-channel, and www.elusivedisc.com - where they separate them propoerly and it is much easier. I Have trouble buying even 2 channel SACDs locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Thanx Maxg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 the elusive disc website was cool! i'm looking at the dvpns900v for myself; the closest to the es9000, at a lower price...i inquired on another bb about the 'chroma-bug' problem, and it hasen't been observed yet on this unit. it affects video on some scenes on some dvds.will follow-up, got some ordered, will 'field-test' on my klipsch/777es and let you know. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 32"tv and sharp xv-z1u lcd projector panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire a 'teens' sub coming!(RSW-15 LOOKIN'GOOD!) KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted December 15, 2001 Share Posted December 15, 2001 I certainly hope that SACD takes off. I just purchased a Sony C222ES. This is my first standalone CD player. I have a Denon DVM 3700 and a Pioneer Elite CLD-53 which both have their own perculiarities. The Denon will not play CD-RWs, the Pioneer does, the Pioneer does not do digital output my Denon reciever, so it was time to get a true CD player. I had a similiar experience to yours with locating SACD's. I was in Best Buys in the CD section searching. A kid asked if I need help and I explain I was looking for SACDs. With a blank stare, his response was "are you talking about recordable CDs"? I told him "no", he went to the computer to look them them up after asking me how to spell SACD. The machine came back with a 'Do not order' message. Anyway, this Best Buy did have them, but the disk were over in the Audio Component section next to the SACD players. I found them on my own. None of the selections where Multi-channel. If this is type of marketing that Best Buy is doing, the format will never take off. The players and the media are all showcased together. I don't think anyone in the store has a clue as to what they have. Back to the player, sofar I now have 3 classical stereo SACDs. The player sounds very clean and accurate playing CDs. I still have to get the wiring setup for multi-channel. I have missed something is setting the Denon. On the 2 channel SACDs I have not been able to get my subwoof to play. I have player set for 2 channel +sub. I have the the Denon set to sub only. I may have the wiring crossed. My system is a maze of wires and the connections to the receiver are not easily gotten to. This weekend I hope to get that all work out. I'm enjoying the player, although I have not found to much on this particular model. ------------------ Bill J. ----- Denon AVR 3300 Denon DVM 3800 DVD Pioneer LD Elite CLD-53 Nakamichi Dragon Cassette Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 RCA Home Theater Hi-Fi VCR RCA 25" Colortrack 2000 (1974) Rega Planar 3 Turntable -Elys cartridge Panamax 1000+ Surge Protector/Line Conditioner Heresy Mains RC-3 Center Channel KSP-6 Rears M&K VX-7 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 15, 2001 Author Share Posted December 15, 2001 There are so many players hitting the market from Sony it is sometimes hard to keep up. Since I wrote this article I have now expanded my collection to around 32 SACDs with another 6 or so on order currently. The 6 on order are all multi-channel and I already own 4. This is definitely the way to go - there is nothing like mutli-channel on this earth for music at this level of quality ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 15, 2001 Share Posted December 15, 2001 As long as Super Audo CD players always read Redbook CD's. 'Cause there is no way in hell I'm gonna throw away all my CD's for a $300 SACD player. (Just for SACD's, NOT!) But from what I understand, the current players play Redbooks very well. I'm gonna keep waiting, If Sony so bent on winning this war, then we should see some of the top line stuff really drop in price. Obviously, they are pumping out entry-level combination players at a good price, for competition. While that is great, I still can't buy into combination players/changers. (Look at all the variables to go wrong.) But this is my lame opinion, and should be disregarded if felt so. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted December 15, 2001 Share Posted December 15, 2001 I am warming up to SACD ...I bought the SONY scd-ce775 5 disk SACD changer. I'm impressed with its quality ... I think SONY/Phillips is going all out to defeat DVD-A which I think they will by eventually releasing everything in hybrid format that can be played as a cd and stereo or multi-channel SACD. They don't want anyone threatening their CD golden goose. To start they are selling pretty high quality players at low prices. SACDs are showing up at Best Buy and Circuit City in special displays. I like my Perpetual Technologies devices that convert regular CDs to super CDs. I wonder if PLII would make them more or less muti-channel. SACDs sound good with my Klipschorns and LaScalas. Haven't tried them out with my Klipsch THX surround system as yet. The Telarc SACD multi-channel rendition of the 1812 Overture feels like you're in the middle of a very musical war zone. Good demo disk! ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 15, 2001 Share Posted December 15, 2001 "there is nothing like mutli-channel on this earth for music at this level of quality". After years and years of arguing back and forth (2-channel vs multi channel), Maxg utters those eloquent words. Makes me weep maxg! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willjam Posted December 16, 2001 Share Posted December 16, 2001 After rechecking the wiring I finally did get the wiring correct for the Sony C222ES so that my sub now works. The difference is incrediable. This is one great sounding player even with the 2 channel disks. The sound is full, clean and robust. I have become a believer in SACD. You have to experience it to believe it. My Heresy's just sing. ------------------ Bill J. ----- Denon AVR 3300 Denon DVM 3800 DVD Pioneer LD Elite CLD-53 Nakamichi Dragon Cassette Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 RCA Home Theater Hi-Fi VCR RCA 25" Colortrack 2000 (1974) Rega Planar 3 Turntable -Elys cartridge Panamax 1000+ Surge Protector/Line Conditioner Heresy Mains RC-3 Center Channel KSP-6 Rears M&K VX-7 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 17, 2001 Author Share Posted December 17, 2001 Sorry Keith, Hate to make a grown man weep. You think I wanted to come to this conclusion?? Look at it this way. I have had to eat more humble pie in this hobby of ours in the last year or so, and made so many u-turns I am positively spinning: I had surround sound on a Yamaha Amp playing a quintet setup with additional KSB 3.1s as fronts. Heard Heresy's - bought them. Yamaha did a dismal job - so I bought a rotel 1080 power amp which improved things a lot. Highs were too harsh so I sold the rotel, yamaha, 3.1s, the quintets and the KSW 10 sub and bought an Accuphase E211. My CD player broke so I used the Denon 3000 DVD as my source. Decided to get a dedicated CD source and picked up the Marantz. Heard a tube monoblock setup and bought it. Heard the Sony DVD/SACD player (NS900) playing SACD and bought that too. Borrowed a pair of speakers from a friend (he had built them). Setup a 4 channel surround sound. Added a Rel Strata 3 sub. I have no idea how many cables and interconnects have come and gone alongside all this activity. Lets say $1500 worth!! Now I can listen to Cd's on either Accuphase (SS amp) or tubes. The problem is I cant stand them now. 2 channel SACD is MUCH better. Multi-channel SACD is better still. Sorry, but there you have it. Of course at my current rate of progress I should be changing my mind in about the next 5 hours or so. BTW : I heard a friends setup over the weekend playing CD. He has Quad 989 ESLs mated to the Accuphase E407. By far the best sound I have heard coming from a CD player ever, but I still prefer SACD sound. If he ever gets SACD, however, I am doomed!! ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) 1 * REL Strata 3 sub Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 Understand maxg. Anyone that poo-poos multi-channel in favor of 2-channel stereo simply hasn't heard even a decent multi-channel set-up.As you've stated,it doesn't take long to understand where the future of audio lies.JMO,of course.Congrats on your set-up. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 Well... I do not have an SACD player, or a CD player for that matter but think I have come to the same conclusion as Max. My Panasonic-RP91 DVD player acts as my CD player for the moment until I can find one for under $600 that I like. Until recently, I really enjoyed listening to my CD's but I have to tell you, the 5.1 DD and DTS music DVD's sound so much better! The Eagles's "HFO", Santana's "Supernatural", James Taylor's "Live at the Beacon Theater", Fleetwood Mac's "The Dance", YES's "Live at the House of Blues" and Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" all sound better than any CD I currently own (with the exception of my XRCD's). I only have 1 DVD-A disc (Fleetwood Mac's Rumors) and it sounds excellent as well (2-channel or multi-channel). I like the 5-channel sound if it's done well and not too over the top. Any one of the DVD's I mentioned above will make you think a little different about multi-channel music, as they are all recorded very well (imho)... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 Perhaps you should think about the task of the engineer to remix these original recordings to fit the multichannel experience and the great ease for the original performance, one that was mixed for two channel, to come out corrupted and more a sonic andrenochrome, audio pill poppers delight, guaranteed to thrill the senses but about as far from the integrity of the original source as a trip to Disney World is to a visit to the streets of Italy. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 12-17-2001 at 12:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 As a matter of fact, my girlfriend and I spent all day at Disney World yesterday (much closer than Italy) and must say, the fireworks display is much better on this side of the pond. Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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