Running RF-7's as large ???

[dcmo]

Normally with music I will run the 7's as large (with RSW-15 set to plus), and with movies I will have them set as small. While watching Chronicles of Riddick I inadvertantly (sp) ran them as large and noticed a huge difference in lower frequencies (have a dvr so was able to compare). What I am wondering is what signals the 7's receive when run as large. Do they receive all possible frequencies, or are the LFE frequencies routed strictly to the sub? It is my hopes the LFE effects are routed to the sub as I don't want them played thru the 7's, so any shedding of light on this matter would be appreciated.

[Buckeye_Nut]

If your speaker setting is set to large, the low frequencies are sent to both the 7's and the subwoofer.

[wuzzzer]

Why don't you want the RF-7s to produce low frequencies?

[BobbyT]

I run my 7s large all of the time. I feel it sounds better.

[toddvj]

If your speaker setting is set to large, the low frequencies are sent to both the 7's and the subwoofer.

Incorrect. Well, not completely correct. If you run the RF-7s as large the low frequencies recorded for the front channels are sent to the RF-7s and the low frequencies recorded for LFE channel are sent to the Sub.

Different processors handle this differently, some actually re-route the LFE to the mains (Like Yamaha, with the LFE+Main setting). But with your Pioneer (I guess that's what you have because of the Plus setting), that is not the case. The Plus setting on Pioneer, as I understand it (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong) will actually re-route the Low Frequencies from all the speakers to the sub regardless of whether the speakers are set to large or not. In other words, you will get the Front Channel's low frequencies to both the mains and the sub, but the LFE still goes ONLY to the sub.

At any rate, the RF-7s are capable of playing pretty low frequencies, so by using them on the large setting, you aren't missing much, and it sounds like you are actually gaining something. I would recommend you check out different Crossover settings (on the receiver, not the sub itself--don't use any filter on the sub's controls) I have mine set at Small with the Crossover at 40. I tried it at 80, and it was not as good. You will see a lot of people reccomend the 80 setting, but don't just blindly follow that, try it for yourself.

[IndyKlipschFan]

The RS7's are fantastic..

The 80 Htz setting is a THX standard, where most smaller speakers are used all around and lower settings 80 Htz and lower are meant to go to the sub(s).

I would always suggest people try different settings all of our rooms are different and your right, some pre amps have different kinds of sub sends in different sound format situations..

(It might be labled enhanced or regular feeds?? Just look it up in your manual.)

Please, please, please, if you have high end full range speakers for fronts, sides, backs and back surrounds do not "ROB" yourself of great sounding full range sound too. It amazes me with people with say RF7's, RC7's even 2 or 4, RS7's and a RSW 15... they set everything to small....

Wake up.. They can handle it, and your missing out!! HELLO!!!!!!!

[ccsakura]

The RS7's are fantastic..

The 80 Htz setting is a THX standard, where most smaller speakers are used all around and lower settings 80 Htz and lower are meant to go to the sub(s).

I would always suggest people try different settings all of our rooms are different and your right, some pre amps have different kinds of sub sends in different sound format situations..

(It might be labled enhanced or regular feeds?? Just look it up in your manual.)

Please, please, please, if you have high end full range speakers for fronts, sides, backs and back surrounds do not "ROB" yourself of great sounding full range sound too. It amazes me with people with say RF7's, RC7's even 2 or 4, RS7's and a RSW 15... they set everything to small....

Wake up.. They can handle it, and your missing out!! HELLO!!!!!!!

Experiment and compare how they perform at different settings.

Theoretically, as low

frequencies send to the driver which would move the driver slowly and

interfere other higher low frequencies before hitting the crossover

since they use the same drive. Especially hitting 40hz or lower which

will make the sound comes out from the same speaker muffles. Quantity of the bass would be higher but you get much lower quality in overall in turn.

Theoretically infinite number of drivers would solve this problem but it gets impractical [:S]

[WolfsBane]

By setting your main speakers to "small", you are telling your amp to send all low frequency signals, (on a Yammy, basically everything below 90 hz), in addition to LFE signals straight to the sub. Most large floor standing speakers, (such as the RF-7), should really be configured in your amp as large.

My input would be to set your main speakers to large, set Low Frequency to both, (main and sub), and set you sub low freq cutoff to about 10 hz above the lowest range that your main speakers are capable of. That way your sub will step in within a reasonable range and complement your mains without depriving your mains from those low frequencies that they are capable of. As always, use caution with the Treble/Bass or graphic equalizer. Specially if you are using a powered sub. The bass setting should be set mid point where there is no bass added or subtracted, and the amount of bass adjusted with the sub volume. Otherwise, you are going to likely muddle up the lows and low mid frequencies and introduce some serious booming.

[Fish]

May I suggest setting them to large,then small and decide which sounds best to you.There is no right or wrong,only what sounds best to the listener.

[picky]

My setup is as follows:

- Screen -

RF7 RC7 RF7

RS7 RS7

RSW15

RCW5 RCW5

I run everything from a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi

My sub is set to 80 Hz LFE, my speakers are set to Large and I use the Plus setting on the sub setup. The sub volume is set to about the 2 O'Clock position (if that means anything to you). I allow the MCACC equalization circuit to set everything for the room using the suppllied microphone. At all volumes I am never lacking for bass nor is there ever too much bass. I never need to tweak anything but the volume control. Life is good!

-Glenn

[rcarlton]

What about the option to run your center channel large or small (Denon AVR-3200)? Can't seem to hear much difference.

[TheSoundBroker]

One thing to keep in mind is that this will be somewhat amp dependent.- Reason being is that by running the RF7's full range, you are demanding more current from your amp. The RF-7 was one of the few Klipsch designs that is not particularly amp friendly and presents a pretty low impedence load down near the resonance point of the woofers. If you have a larger space and like to crank it up, you may be demanding more than the amp is capable of and it may sound worse. If you have the option to use a lower crossover frequency, do so. I always used 40hz when I ran 7's (with separates) and unless there was a room peak, thought that was their sweet spot (the center was best at 50hz). You should try it both ways but know that an RF-7 based system run by a reciever nearly always benefits from an amp upgrade for the mains. You don't necessarily need a ton more horsepower, but an amp with a lot of output current and stability will show huge benefits. I had the best results on RF-7's with the Bryston 3BSST and 4BSST. Best I ever heard a Ref 7 system sound is one setup I did with a 9BSST with an additional 4BSST biamping the woofers on the F's (the 9BSST ran the top). That system was totally transformed and sounded very very different than I'd ever heard it before.

[dcmo]

to my original post, I should have listed more of what I use to run the 7's with. I have a VSX53TX which I use as a pre-amp, and am powering them with a Gemstone Blue Diamond. My rear speakers are cv D9's (carryover's from the 80's). In response:

1) I'm not saying I don't want low frequency going to the RF7's, I just don't want anything lower than the rated low of 32hz if it's going to damage them over time. I'm not sure what happens when it goes lower than that, is all that happens is the signal is gradually lost or is there possible damage that can occur such as if a 20 or 25hz signal came thru at a loud level (non LFE if that is possible).

2) Indy, are you saying that you would run RS7's as large or is it a mistype. They are only rated down to 58hz before dropping off, wouldn't there be information lost below that if set to large or would the RSW15 set to plus fill in the missing information.

3) Wouldn't it be better to run the RC7 and the RS7's as small (RF7's as large) with the crossover set to 50hz (as low as the Pioneer goes). The RC7 is rated down to 45hz with the RS7 at 58, wouldn't this setting get everything out of them that they could give as opposed to setting them both as large and starting to lose information at the above stated frequencies.

4) If everything is set to large, the crossover setting on the pre-amp is rendered useless. Wouldn't I have to then enable the lowpass crossover on the sub, and if so what would be a good setting or would that depend on what I was looking for in sound (more bass or less bass).

Right now I have everything set to large, with the lowpass crossover engaged at a setting of 100hz. It seems to me that the option of number 3 above sounds logical, but then again I am far from knowing everything about how all this works.

Thanks to all, your help and knowledge is appreciated..

[colterphoto1]

If your speaker setting is set to large, the low frequencies are sent to both the 7's and the subwoofer.

Incorrect. Well, not completely correct. If you run the RF-7s as large the low frequencies recorded for the front channels are sent to the RF-7s and the low frequencies recorded for LFE channel are sent to the Sub.

Different processors handle this differently, some actually re-route the LFE to the mains (Like Yamaha, with the LFE+Main setting). But with your Pioneer (I guess that's what you have because of the Plus setting), that is not the case. The Plus setting on Pioneer, as I understand it (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong) will actually re-route the Low Frequencies from all the speakers to the sub regardless of whether the speakers are set to large or not. In other words, you will get the Front Channel's low frequencies to both the mains and the sub, but the LFE still goes ONLY to the sub.

At any rate, the RF-7s are capable of playing pretty low frequencies, so by using them on the large setting, you aren't missing much, and it sounds like you are actually gaining something. I would recommend you check out different Crossover settings (on the receiver, not the sub itself--don't use any filter on the sub's controls) I have mine set at Small with the Crossover at 40. I tried it at 80, and it was not as good. You will see a lot of people reccomend the 80 setting, but don't just blindly follow that, try it for yourself.

Todd, a side note, with my RXV2400 Yammie, if I set the LF output to SUB+Mains, the Sub operates while in 2 ch mode. If I set it to LF to SUB only, the sub does not come on in 2 ch mode, but does in 7 ch stereo. THis is so friggin weird.

[Zen Traveler]

I prefer to run the set up listed below with all of my speakers set to large. 3 months ago I changed my subwoofer setting in my Denon AVR 4802R to LFE only, " from LFE +mains and I must say I now prefer it's tighter bass of the new setting.[]

[TheEAR]

One thing to keep in mind is that this will be somewhat amp dependent.- Reason being is that by running the RF7's full range, you are demanding more current from your amp. The RF-7 was one of the few Klipsch designs that is not particularly amp friendly and presents a pretty low impedence load down near the resonance point of the woofers. If you have a larger space and like to crank it up, you may be demanding more than the amp is capable of and it may sound worse. If you have the option to use a lower crossover frequency, do so. I always used 40hz when I ran 7's (with separates) and unless there was a room peak, thought that was their sweet spot (the center was best at 50hz). You should try it both ways but know that an RF-7 based system run by a reciever nearly always benefits from an amp upgrade for the mains. You don't necessarily need a ton more horsepower, but an amp with a lot of output current and stability will show huge benefits. I had the best results on RF-7's with the Bryston 3BSST and 4BSST. Best I ever heard a Ref 7 system sound is one setup I did with a 9BSST with an additional 4BSST biamping the woofers on the F's (the 9BSST ran the top). That system was totally transformed and sounded very very different than I'd ever heard it before.

Well put

In the end users with receivers should set RF7's to "small",to free the amp from the extra work when working full range.Most energy is in the bass,and cutting the deep bass frees an amp from stress.

Very few receivers(the 5800 series from Denon and a few flagship receivers)can do justice here.And none will come close to quality amplification like from Bryston 4B SST or the 9B. You can run the RF7's full range and you will have a level of control down deep and slam you may think you have gained servo control.

I use the big ATI (1505 and 2505) amps with my RF7's and it simply does not compare,no receiver with match the grip these amps have down deep.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Your starting to see the frustration of a speaker company making a center speaker. With dialog so important that seemless sound from left to center to right speakers.. is crucial. (also sometimes called timbre cause your also matching drivers too.)

In a perfect world, everything accross the fronts would be the same.

In a semi perfect world, get as good as... or better speaker for your center, as your main left and right speakers will dictate.

We can argue if it is as important for sides and rears... I will, and others that have gone the everything the same route all around as others will tell you if it is all the same it will blow you away..... but that gets pretty costly too. People with a carefully designed series, say the Klipsch RF RS RC in the 7's line will also sing high praises because it was designed to work together... Add the right sub and pre amp / amp you have a system that will rival just about anything you have ever experieneced.

It is all good, were just trying to point out the good systems we have tried or heard ourselves.. This brings people around that have questions and want to learn too. This makes life happier, and you get more enjoyment out of everyday things because you can just enjoy great sound you were searching for.