popbumper Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 A small "experiment" if you will. Recently I purchased a set of WO Forte's to split with forum member Bdbaba, who has been urging me to install a Forte between by L/R and surround Forte's as center. AS most know, the "timbre match argument" is valid, and is an important step in seamless sound presentation. For two years I have been running four Forte's and an Academy center, all with upgraded K-stack crossovers. The listening is really wonderful - the crossovers have helped reveal SO much missing information, and everything is better (soundstage, clarity, depth, etc.) Tonite I "popped in" one of the stock Forte's as a temporary center, displacing my beloved Academy. Reason? To see what the Forte could do that the Academy could not. The results? 1) I once again proved my modified Fortes KICK A**. They sound SO much better than the stock Forte, it's outrageous. I was clearly amazed at the lack of dynamics coming from the stock Forte center; smear, hash, and lack of clarity were painfully obvious. The L/R's just SANG the whole time... 2) Aside from what would be an obvious result (more bass), my modified Academy sounds BETTER than a stock Forte, hands down. CONCLUSION: I eagerly look forward to building a modified network, which I will install NEXT WEEK and re-evaluate the Forte as a center. If everything else holds true, it will be remarkable. Until then, I'll probably swap my Academy back in for the time being. I'm gonna say it again, like a broken record; if you have NOT heard a Klipsch speaker with an improved crossover, you do NOT know what is missing. Timbre match is NOT enough; swap speakers all day, you are still missing out. Man, it's FUN to prove the efficacy of network upgrades again and again. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I'll second what Chris is saying 'bout the upgraded Academy...beautiful...mine is crossing over at 100Hz right now and just sings with movies...you are REALLY making me want to try installing your "popbumpered" K-Stacks on my "new" Quartets...time to start saving those pennies again...[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 What a bunch of over-the-top crap -- everyone knows there ain't a hill of beans difference in these parts when you measure them, and you're only hearing what you want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 Dean: I learned from the best...[] Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Update: Spent some time last night and this afternoon building a new network for the Forte center. I did NOT use K-stack boards (running low - need to reorder), but instead did a point to point layout with Kimber caps, a Solen Litz inductor on the tweeter, and a Solen "perfect lay" coil on the bottom end. Hooked it all up, reviewed a few movies for an hour, and liked what I heard. Now I DO have "seamless front soundstage" - with better bass. It really IS impressive when you have all speakers matched, and upgraded networks to boot, though the Academy is NO SLOUCH AT ALL. My wife just came upstairs an hour ago to turn on the Dallas/Miami finals game 2 (gotta love her). For the home theater, I have an HD tuner, and of course digital sound. This was her first session with the improved Forte, I turn it on, she goes "WOW - that's different"! I ask (probing), "different good, or bad"? She says - "GOOD - it's like there's MORE". Yup, exactly - more. Gotta love it. Time to go back to the game! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2006 Leaving for Hope in the am , with any luck someone will have a new crossover in one of the speakers to compare the difference. I am going to have these Forte ll's for a long time if there is that much difference it may be something i need to do. I am now useing three forte ll's across the front and two original Forte's for the rear all stock. The two rears "may" be changed if i ever ran across another pair of ll's, but i can't hear a difference for now. Not that i don't belive you but i am old and hardheaded ,ask my wife. From the way you and others talk I should hear a big difference if i would change out the crossovers on the front three speakers being that is where most of the sound comes from. I am very happy with the sound the way it is now, but there is always room for improvement. I always put my foot in my mouth by saying to my wife ,like after the last pair of Forte's not even a week ago " now i am happy with the way it sounds " even though i am. She heard this line before and i am still trying to improve. I can say this because she never reads this part of the forum, i hope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Leaving for Hope in the am , with any luck someone will have a new crossover in one of the speakers to compare the difference. I am going to have these Forte ll's for a long time if there is that much difference it may be something i need to do. I am now useing three forte ll's across the front and two original Forte's for the rear all stock. The two rears "may" be changed if i ever ran across another pair of ll's, but i can't hear a difference for now. Not that i don't belive you but i am old and hardheaded ,ask my wife. From the way you and others talk I should hear a big difference if i would change out the crossovers on the front three speakers being that is where most of the sound comes from. I am very happy with the sound the way it is now, but there is always room for improvement. I always put my foot in my mouth by saying to my wife ,like after the last pair of Forte's not even a week ago " now i am happy with the way it sounds " even though i am. She heard this line before and i am still trying to improve. I can say this because she never reads this part of the forum, i hope? I'm not bringing any speakers, but I AM going to bring a pair of Al's ES600/5800 networks. I just got the 5800's from Al, fresh off the bench (still wrapped in his bubble wrap) and the other day, received from Shawn, the ES600's. They'll be there and if someone wants to give them a whirl, so be it and if no one has an interest, that's ok too. Talked to my wife today, she'd forgotten I'm leaving tomorrow. When she found out I was bringing some goodies along, she just laughed and shook her head at me. I KNOW she did cause I could hear it rattling through the phone! [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2006 I hope someone will try it , even if it's not on a forte by just changing one you could compare the difference. If all else fails i will still get to hear some types of speakers i have never heard, like korns,cornwalls and who knows what else! It will be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 dtel, upgrading the networks in those Forte's will be a significant improvement and you won't have to work to hear the difference it will be IMMEDIATELY evident the moment that you turn them back on. Highs will be more detailed and extended, midrange will be lush, accurate and smooth, bass will be tighter and more controlled and seem deeper in overall response. If you are going to be keeping the speakers the investment will yield MORE improvement than a source or amplication change at a much lower cost. Chris does fabulous work and stands firmly behind his product, if you are not impressed when you do it I would be very, very surprised. Now that you have all the speakers you wanted it is the next level in system progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2006 " Highs will be more detailed and extended, midrange will be lush, accurate and smooth, bass will be tighter and more controlled and seem deeper in overall response. " That sounds great, the midrange and highs is what i was hoping to clean up a little. It sounds a little dull now unless you turn it up to a fair amount and i can't always do that. Have a few extra people, mother,sister,neice and her husband ,living here because ther houses are gone because of Katrina. It has been much easier then i would have ever thought! Not complaining but just because i want to listen to something don't mean they do, although they say it's ok i don't want to be a *** all the time. I like to listen to music alot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted June 13, 2006 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2006 Oh i forgot something i said i will always keep the Fortes but i never said it was the last speakers[] We have planed to get a pair of Klipshorns for 2 channel a little later $ ,thats what my wife says anyway, and if thats what she really wants i guess it's ok.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Dtel: Best way I can describe it - the sound of the unmodified Forte between the two upgraded ones was DULL. It was lifeless, had no "air to it" it was just "there". I don't know how else to describe it. I might (if I get motivated enough) bring a stock Forte and a modified one to the gathering to share so you can actually hear the difference. It's easier to witness it than describe it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Chris, It is VERY unfair of you to do this "hard sell" on me just 'cuz you know I have a set of Quartets and the fact that you build upgrades for the Quartets and I don't have upgrades for the Quartets and I want the best sound I can get from my Quartets and you can make the Quartets sing even better than they do stock...VERRRRY unfair...[] []... I am a VERY happy owner of an Academy that has been "upgraded" by Chris' K-Stack...dtel, on this we are very much alike...I keep thinking EVERYTIME I do an upgrade to gear or speakers that this is FINALLY it (you would think I would have learned by now) but then something ELSE comes up...I want the madness to stop but revel in the knowledge and the auditory bliss such an upgrade manytimes brings...I want an assurance the upgrade is necessary 'cuz they sound so sweet stock...I thought that 'bout the Academy...Chris took it up SEVERAL notches with his upgrades...clearer, more mid and more authority to the sound...I am not good at the descriptors here but it is better...nuff said??? Chris, I sent you an e-mail...dirty, rotten trick...[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carjulreyes Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I can also atest that Chris' network upgrades are worth every penny. I have the Academy upgrade and I believe the first Quartet upgrade networks Chris built. Bill - the Quartet definitely come alive with the Chris' networks. But I'm sure there's no need convincing you. BTW, what part of IL are you at? Maybe we can meet up and do an A/B test with Quartets stock and upgraded. I have Chorus II's doing the main duty right now and the Quartets are just sitting in the corner waiting for me to figure out what to do for a 2 channel system. But as soon as I get more funds, I'm going to get the upgrades for the Chorus's. So Chris - keep the spacers and K-stack boards in stock, you'll be hearing from me again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I am in Brookfield...can you tell me how the K-Stacks for the Quarts go in??? Is it like the Academy where the old crossover is disconnected and you put the new one on the bottom of the speaker??? Is there enough room inside??? Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carjulreyes Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Bill - you have a pm so not to hijack Chris' thread. Carlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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