jpm Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I was reading an old thread about the use of the loudness control and tone controls on some older gear. One forum member stated: "I have found that people that live with very simple components almost NEVER go back to full featured ones. The only people that tend to argue these points are ones that still have this type of gear. Having lived with both, including an in-home recording studio with every imaginable component around, I can say that the transparency and closeness one feels to the performance is almost always increased with the removal of components from the circuit (with a few exceptions)." I couldn't agree with this assessment more. Last year I had a BBE processor in my system. I went on and on defending it all the while spending too much time jumping up and down and adjusting for each song. When I got my new LaScalas, I realized that the BBE sucked. I removed it and never looked back. My Rega gear only has a volume control, and that's all I'll ever need. Parrot, I owe you an apology. Live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 necessary? no. convenient? yes, to compensate on some recordings. ... however, their presence causes anxiety among many audiophiles. apologize to Parrot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 My gear is sans tone controls. I do have a 1/2 octave equalizer that is available to switch inline if needed for making bad CDs better. The truth is though, in 2 years, it was only used a few times in the beginning. I havent looked back since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 "necessary? no. convenient? yes, to compensate on some recordings. ..." Agreed. And a *smart* loudness control that automatically accounts for the SPL at the listening position is very handy to have to keep the speaker full balanced at low listening levels too. Those are rare though. Most are just dumb and at a fixed curve which will add to much bass bloat. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flannj Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Don't like them at all. - Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Parrot, I owe you an apology. Live and learn. Thank you, although I don't even remember arguing about these circuits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I too have been on both sides of this argument. I've had the ability to "adjust" for various recording deficiencies in various ways - tone controls, EQ, active crossovers and the like. I now have none of those adjustments in my system. My conclusions: (1) too much time is spent obsessing over the controls - it becomes counter productive. (2) the sacrifices in clarity and transparency are not worth the benefit of the controls, which only affect tonal balance. I can live with a lot of tone imbalance, but I can't live with cloudy, murky, lifeless sound. (3) recordings that are really bad, don't actually improve much with tone modification. IME, such recordings were so carelessly made that a myriad of errors by the engineer result in bad tone, distortion, bad balance, goofy mic placement, excessive compression, noise, and so on down the line. Enjoy the music in them, and just ignore the sound, it can't really be restored at the playback level. md P.S. One more thing. If your speakers consistently require "tone" adjustments, you need new or different speakers. A network upgrade has made more of a postive impression on me than tone controls in any amp. When low SPL listening in my bedroom I turn up the bass a little bit on my Scott LK-48. For new equipment I would never buy for tone controls. I use them less and less on my vintage equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I agree with most of what has been said so far. I work nights and listen to music from 2:00-7:00 AM so being able to adjust the bass so my neighbors don't come banging on the door is a plus. I disagree with the people who say all equipment with tone controls degrade the sound. Most components today that have tone controls will not help because they use cheap parts and poor designs. You can buy equipment from Macintosh, Luxman and a few others that have tone controls that does not degrade the sound. Again this is my opinion others have theirs. I own a 2004 Luxman Int amp with tone and Loudness controls that to me does not sound "cloudy, murky, lifeless sound". But on most equipment today that is what tone controls end up doing to the music making it sound "cloudy, murky, lifeless sound". My circumstances require tone controls so I found a piece of equipment that to my ears does not degrade the sound quality. I would say don't worry about using tone controls most people don't need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I know a guy that runs with the loudness button depressed at all times. His speakers sound like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I know a guy that runs with the loudness button depressed at all times. His speakers sound like crap. LMAO He isnt running a top of the line montgomery ward receiver into a pair of bose is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 ...always wanted them...many times used them to compensate for things...found this place...stopped using them...haven't missed them...pretty lucky??? I think so...YMMV...[] [] Billiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'd tell you what he has, but I think he reads the board and I don't want to piss him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Yeah, like he won't know when he reads this thread! My general rule of thumb: If you need tone controls, you have a bad system. The problem is in defining the word "need". DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I do believe that the last time this came up, Eric Mandeville was kind enough to post the schematic for the Marantz 7C as his side of the argument. Me I swing both ways. Wait a minute that didn't come out quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 ahhhhh thebes...with the twins you would have to, yes??? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 You guys crack me up.[] Seriously though depends on if using newer or vintage equipment. None of the new equipment has them at least the new equipment i have. And when using the vintage equipment sometimes its a blast to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 ahhhhh thebes...with the twins you would have to, yes??? Bill You have no idea what they have me swinging from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 With tone controls I usually set it and forget it unless I change speakers or when my crossovers were reworked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanbrain Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 So for those of us who do have tone controls, is it better to leave them at the neutral (12:00) setting? I know it's all up to me in the end, but if I wanted to somehow bypass the tone controls, would the neutral settings be closest to, well, neutral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 So for those of us who do have tone controls, is it better to leave them at the neutral (12:00) setting? I know it's all up to me in the end, but if I wanted to somehow bypass the tone controls, would the neutral settings be closest to, well, neutral? Well with the tone controls bypassed it is more of a straight line approach. So the answer to your question would be yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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