Tony Reed Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 3x13 on the throat. I haven't run any simulations on anything. I'm just "trusting" that it will sound ok. BTW, I'm going with the K500 mid horn instead of the K600. The only real "unknown" is the crossover. I have a custom built pair just for this project. I can modify them as needed. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Tony, that's probably a safe bet. The LB patent states a 78 sq. in. throat, and we know that the Khorn, LS and Belle all have that as the throat size, BUT still use a smaller slot, the 3x13. I think if you used a different driver than the K33E, the larger full-size cavity opening would then be in order. I'm looking forward to seeing more about your project! Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Tony, that's probably a safe bet. The LB patent states a 78 sq. in. throat, and we know that the Khorn, LS and Belle all have that as the throat size, BUT still use a smaller slot, the 3x13. I think if you used a different driver than the K33E, the larger full-size cavity opening would then be in order. Dana D-Man I'm really glad to see you say that. I was hoping that I got it right. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 "The only real "unknown" is the crossover. I have a custom built pair just for this project. I can modify them as needed." Perhaps since you are going to be using the same drivers and horns PWK used, you could just use the same crossover design too. The published graphs looked pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 "The only real "unknown" is the crossover. I have a custom built pair just for this project. I can modify them as needed." Perhaps since you are going to be using the same drivers and horns PWK used, you could just use the same crossover design too. The published graphs looked pretty good. That's a good idea. Will it make any difference that PWK used a K43, K55V & a K600 and I'm using a K33, K55M & a K500? Thanks, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Would someone please post the crossover design? Thanks, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 U need a tiff reader to view patents including 4237340 (LB): free tiff readers: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/help/images.htm heres a freeze - maybe someone will explain the autoformers' hookup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 The midrange does not use an autoformer, only the tweeter does. It is just a tapped inductor with an air core (PWK actually used a T2A with the iron removed). Madisound can make this from a 0.8mH air core inductor for a modest up-charge. The woofer is the K33E, the midrange is the K55V, the tweeter is the K77, the horn the K500, a pad on the order of 1dB would be required for the K55M. The values for the various parameters for a specific construction of a low frequency loudspeaker in accordance with the illustrative embodiment of the present invention in FIGS. 2 and 3 are summarized in Table I. TABLE I ______________________________________ LOW FREQUENCY LOUDSPEAKER ______________________________________ Electroacoustic = KLIPSCH Transducer K33E Analytical Low End = 66-70 Hz. Cut-off Frequency Throat Area = 78 Square Inches Mouth Area = 252 Square Inches Rate of Expansion = Cross-Sectional of Horn Area Doubles Every 11.8 Inches Mean Sound Path = 20 Inches Length Volume of Back Air = 2,730 Cubic Chamber Inches TABLE II ______________________________________ MIDRANGE FREQUENCY LOUDSPEAKER ______________________________________ Electroacoustic = KLIPSCH Transducer K55V Analytical Low End = 375 Hz. Cut-off Frequency Throat Area = 0.4 Square Inch Mouth Area = 46 Square Inches Rate of Expansion = Cross-Sectional of Horn Area Doubles Every 2 Inches Mean Sound Path = 15 Inches Length Volume of Back = 2.55 Cubic Air Chamber Inches or equi- valent combined air chamber and diaphragm sus- pension com- pliance A KLIPSCH K-77 may be used for the high frequency loudspeaker 11 of the illustrative embodiment of the loudspeaker system of the present invention. Although the efficiency of this high frequency loudspeaker is lower than either the low or midrange frequency loudspeakers, the power demand in the high audible frequency range, that is, in the range of 6,000-15,000 Hz., is small. Consequently, an autotransformer may be incorporated into an LC crossover network as described below so as to permit use of the KLIPSCH K-77. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 djk, or others, would you mind to translate that description of the LB crossover for the truly technically challenged? I notice that the autoformer is used for the K77 only in the LB. What I'm wondering is how much difference this would make between the LB crossover and the type A. Would there be much real world difference? Appreciate any help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted August 6, 2006 Author Share Posted August 6, 2006 DJK - its interesting LB ran squawker without attenuation and lowered HF Z through tapped choke on tweeter to force K77 keep up. ~108 claimed system sensitivity is a lot from K33E ! could a Klipsch autoformer work in place of 0.8mH tapped choke? re:78sq.in. - is is possible LB had that much opening and 3x13 constriction was used primarily with bifurcated horns? (IIIC some old K-horns had 78) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 "its interesting LB ran squawker without attenuation and lowered HF Z through tapped choke on tweeter to force K77 keep up. ~108 claimed system sensitivity is a lot from K33E ! " The Klischorn and LaScala seem to have no trouble hitting 108dB in the 100hz~300hz region. The LB-76 adds a high-Q filter to boost output in the 400hz crossover region, as did later Heritage designs. "could a Klipsch autoformer work in place of 0.8mH tapped choke?" What would be the point? PWK used a T2A and removed the iron. A T2A will cost $30, a custom inductor from Madisound will cost $5."re:78sq.in. - is is possible LB had that much opening and 3x13 constriction was used primarily with bifurcated horns? (IIIC some old K-horns had 78) " I would build with a 78 in opening, I don't think the LB-76 requires the 39 in opening. If wrong, a constrictor plate can always be added, like Klipsch did for a while on the Klipschorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 "would you mind to translate that description of the LB crossover for the truly technically challenged? " It just uses the Belle component group with a smaller cabinet with no bass, and a new network that peaks the woofer at the crossover point so it has enough output to match the mid without having to attenuate the mid. This network also peaks the mid before cutting it off at 6Khz. This network uses a tapped inductor (autoformer) to boost the K77 up to the level of the woofer and mid. The peaking and boosting in the network causes the input impedance to dip at 400hz and at 6Khz (and above)."I notice that the autoformer is used for the K77 only in the LB. What I'm wondering is how much difference this would make between the LB crossover and the type A. Would there be much real world difference? " There is a huge difference, they're not even similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 djk, Thanks for lining that out for me. What I'm wondering now is if the type A crossover might be a preferable crossover. If I'm understanding the impact of the LB crossover, it would yield more tweeterand squawker sound relative to the woofer. It would seem that in a design which would tend to be bass shy, the overall sound would be enhanced by padding down the mid and high frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share Posted August 7, 2006 DJK - see what you're saying - just wondered if existing autormer could do job. re:custom tapped-coil part - just ask Madisound to make a 0.8mH choke with a ~0.24mH tap? (i'd use KSN1016 with stepup) re: LB lowpass - what's approximate Q for 2.5mH with 128uF? on FH1 I wonder if an additional LCR trap to catch the peak around 2Khz could be of benefit to smooth sound (?) is there an in-production non-Klipsch horn which might do suitable duty for as squawker? re: no bass with LB = time for nice 6th order assisted reflex or transformed sealed subwoofer - unless a bulky "horn" would suffice. I don't have space anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Here's where I'm at... I managed to make a little progress. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Looking good Tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted September 3, 2006 Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 LB's lookin' sweet Tony - are you going to take data? did you McBean them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Wow ...!! Nice work .... not much of a horn, tho , is it ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 We used to use them as side fill monitors- I remember them as not having much bass- but just SCREAMING in the vocal ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) hey Tony - - this is FreddyI - how did your LB76 turn out? did they perform per published graph? - how about the throat area? would you have a plan? - I'm interested in the bass section Edited August 10, 2015 by karlson3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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