Klipschorn Jubilee (Babies First Sounds)

[Al Klappenberger]

Richard,

Send yours to me! How about a nice swap for a set of modified Belles? They have ES networks!

Marion,

Consulting jobs of any size often require written contracts. I have one with K&L Microwave. A legally binding contract may be needed for a deal like I propose also. In any case, the first rule for any consultant is that you don't talke to customer A about what you are doing for customer B or vice-versa! If you do you will never be trusted again by either A or B!

Al k.

[WMcD]

Mike had posted a link to the Acoustical Society of America above. This was in connection with obtaining a copy of the Post thesis.

I saw that the Society wanted, as Mike pointed out, money for a copy of the Journal.

Rather than do that, I walked over to Chicago Public Library this afternoon and took a look at the Journal page on microfilm. Good thing I did.

It is only an abstract of the thesis.

OTOH, the U of T Library shows the article is on a self in Austin. I'll look into getting a copy. It will probably take a long time. So don't wait for me.

Gil

[DrWho]

Gil, are you going to pursue obtaining a copy? If you can help me out on the necessary details I need to give the librarian, perhaps I can check it out on an interlibrary loan or whatever they call that system. It's usually free for students...I'm not seeing anything on the pages I linked to that would identify the specific book.

[WMcD]

Mike,

I was thinking of asking for your help, not the other way around. Smile.

It may be that all I can do it ask for an interlibrary loan through Chicago Public Library. You might have more pull at U of I Champaign.

I did a search at the office which you can do too. Just Google for University of Texas at Austin, then search for thesis and title of the article. It popped out. It is on the shelf, in Austin, probably no where else. About 180 pages as you point out. There is a call number and OCLC number.

The folks at U of I were very helpful when I was hunting down the old PWK articles. These were in their collection in that big old brick building.

Library people are generally very nice. This is partictulary so when you approach them with a hunt for a specific easter egg. I expect they fade a bit when asked to do research on what might be a wild goose chase.

Let me know if you can do this. It would be a pip if either of us can't get a copy of the thesis because the other has asked for a loan, or a copy.

Gil

[mikebse2a3]

Hey Mike

Recheck all the Data for the EV Dx 38 Race program that I sent you.

The 3rd filter in the Output EQ Section is set for PEQ and it should be "loslv" Low Shelve.

Also recheck all the Level Settings they should be at (0) db.

This is what you should be seeing.

Delay is off in this view also and I haven't calculated the correct difference between what is used and the actual physical difference so this isn't totally correct either but I'm out of time tonight.

mike tn[]

[DrWho]

lol Gil [] I'm more than happy to do the footwork, I just don't have a clue what I'm doing! - thus why I'm seeking the advice of the hunter guru []

Is the OCLC number and title the only things I need? Here is a link to the UT library entry thing:

http://utdirect.utexas.edu/lib/utnetcat/full.WBX?search_type=FL&search_text=MODELING+AND+MEASUREMENT+STUDY+OF+ACOUSTIC+HORNS&next_action=N&next_record_brn=007765370&loc_display_type=V

Since I practically walk by the library everyday it'll be no issue to swing by later this week - pending of course on the homework situation (which should be light since the semester is just starting).

And then I'll have to figure out how to scan the bloody thing - is it legal to keep pdf copies for your own use? Talk about a huge undertaking. How do you normally go about scanning all the articles you've been providing to the forum?

[mikebse2a3]

Dr Who, we might just cause confusion with the EV Dx38 graphs we just posted and maybe we should wait for Roy to show the complete acoustical response of the jubilee.

So Everyone please remember what we posted on the EV Dx38 isn't a picture of the Acoustical Response of the Jubilee. It is just the EV Dx38's correction curve of amplitude/phase and in the case of the picture I posted the Delay is turned off to represent what would happen if the drivers were in perfect phase. I'm sure Roy is compensating for many variables affecting phase and the delay he has chosen is the best compromise when every thing is taken into account.

mike tn[]

[oldbuckster]

I'd like to meet ROY someday, and shake his hand...........Just Because........

[Daddy Dee]

Old buckster.

That's a good word for Roy Delgado, a good man, and a huge asset to Klipsch. Aside from his obvious engineering excellence, he earns massive amounts of good will going the second mile, IMO.

You didn't meet Roy in Hope?

[oldbuckster]

Daddy, never been to Hope...........many members I'd like to meet............Someday, maybe............The question is, Do they want to meet me?.........

[Coytee]

BerryBoy at his laboratory and his creation...

(almost sounds like a tagline for a new Frankenstein movie?)

[seti]

BerryBoy at his laboratory and his creation...

(almost sounds like a tagline for a new Frankenstein movie?)

Its ALIVE Its ALIVE

[Deang]

Notice how Roy has it on a leash, with his foot down to keep it from getting away.

[DrWho]

Dr Who, we might just cause confusion with the EV Dx38 graphs we just posted and maybe we should wait for Roy to show the complete acoustical response of the jubilee.

So Everyone please remember what we posted on the EV Dx38 isn't a picture of the Acoustical Response of the Jubilee. It is just the EV Dx38's correction curve of amplitude/phase and in the case of the picture I posted the Delay is turned off to represent what would happen if the drivers were in perfect phase. I'm sure Roy is compensating for many variables affecting phase and the delay he has chosen is the best compromise when every thing is taken into account.

mike tn[]

Tis a very good point...the simulation I posted assumed that the bass bin was acoustically 1.2m behind the HF horn (based on the 3.5ms quoted in the pro Jubilee tech sheet). According to the delay compensation Roy put into the crossover, he is saying the bass bin is 0.8m behind the HF horn to compensate for the phase difference because the Dx38 can't do phase adjustment. (so if you put in 0.8m you see the response Mike posted). A wavelength at 550Hz is about 0.6m, so that means they're about 240 degrees out of phase in the crossover region?

[SilverSport]

I'd like to meet ROY someday, and shake his hand...........Just Because........

Me too...

Bill

[Deang]

An interesting read.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/phase.html

[oldbuckster]

BerryBoy at his laboratory and his creation...

(almost sounds like a tagline for a new Frankenstein movie?)

GOOD LOOKIN' SON OF A BUCK!!!!!..........................Not you Roy........

The Speaker!!!!!!..................[]

[mikebse2a3]

An interesting read.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/phase.html

Thanks for the article post DeanG!

Definitly something to think about! When trying to find the Right Compromises for the Best Sound! "Time" another tool in our arsenal for good sound!

mike tn[]

[mikebse2a3]

Dr Who, we might just cause confusion with the EV Dx38 graphs we just posted and maybe we should wait for Roy to show the complete acoustical response of the jubilee.

So Everyone please remember what we posted on the EV Dx38 isn't a picture of the Acoustical Response of the Jubilee. It is just the EV Dx38's correction curve of amplitude/phase and in the case of the picture I posted the Delay is turned off to represent what would happen if the drivers were in perfect phase. I'm sure Roy is compensating for many variables affecting phase and the delay he has chosen is the best compromise when every thing is taken into account.

mike tn[]

Tis a very good point...the simulation I posted assumed that the bass bin was acoustically 1.2m behind the HF horn (based on the 3.5ms quoted in the pro Jubilee tech sheet). According to the delay compensation Roy put into the crossover, he is saying the bass bin is 0.8m behind the HF horn to compensate for the phase difference because the Dx38 can't do phase adjustment. (so if you put in 0.8m you see the response Mike posted). A wavelength at 550Hz is about 0.6m, so that means they're about 240 degrees out of phase in the crossover region?

Hey Mike

Playing with the Time Delay (Just One Of Many Domains That Add Up To The Total Loudspeaker Performance) in the Ev Dx38 really drives home the point that to design Speakers Today without doing test in the Acoustical Domain (Where The Rubber Meets The Road so to speak) with the Test Equipment Available today like TEF or even ETF and for the Few Lucky People With Anechoic Chambers(ROY! []) and Yes! Including Our Own Ears is truely full of pitfalls and very unlikely to produce a truely optimized design.

mike tn[]

[DrWho]

Yes, thanks for the article Dean...still mulling that one over. Some things don't sit right, so I'll need to reread a few times. I've been pulling out the old textbooks and looking at how the transient behavior of circuits change with time delay. It's not a big issue in the phase corrected steady state except for the off-axis response (comb-filtering).

The time domain is certainly the new frontier of audio research - probably because only recently has it been a measurable/compensable attribute. I remember one of PWK's ideals was to ignore anything that couldn't be measured (since it doesn't really help the engineer decide which compromises to choose). I wonder what his later thoughts were on the subject, or perhaps it was a little after his time. I know Roy likes playing with time - does that make Roy a timelord? That Jubilee could totally be his Tardis... (sorry, lame doctor who reference...) []