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Klipschorn Jubilee (Babies First Sounds)

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It certainly breaks my first commandment of audio purchasing -- don't buy ugly gear.:)

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Always go for the ugly gal....Then when she leaves you,,,You wont feel so bad

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Well here I go. JC I'm glad you already typed that great technical review. Now I just have to fill in a little....but there's so much to say!

First, JC and I live about equally east and west of Atlanta and Richard lives about 200 miles almost straight north of Atlanta near Knoxville. So JC and I met just outside of Atlanta and carpooled. We had over 6 hours of conversation that spanned everything from our families, jobs, hobbies, JC's speaker designs....and of course all things audio. We instantly hit it off and the time really flew by. The ride both ways was as pleasurable as it could have been.

When we arrived at Richard's we got all our stuff inside and went into "the room". There those things were....almost laughable when you think about the toys we play with. Normal people would never understand. The Jubs were almost as tall as Richard as I came in the room with him standing there.

We spent about 30 or more minutes with no music at first, relaxing, getting reacquainted and just discussing the system components, familiarizing, and having Q&A with Richard. We spread out all the music on the table and had a huge selection of CDs from which to pick...including several concert DVDs. No vinyl.

Richard is a great guy and a fantastic host. When the three of us were together that whole afternoon it was just like three brothers reuniting. I felt like we all knew each other and the atmosphere was completely comfortable...totally.

I think I got the first selection and I chose Craig Lemay's (forum member) Big Left Turn hard rockin' CD to start the day off. As it turned out we took turns and went through all types of music (2-3 songs each per CD):acoustic, piano, flute, metal, percussion, blues, jazz, vocals, rock, funk, and DVD concerts (Pulse, Roger Waters, Metallica, etc).

The Jubilees played each type of music completely effortlessly. Richard has a very nice system (already described by JC), and there was plenty of power although I don't think we used very much. The top was driven by the Mac and the meters were around 1 watt at times but as high as around 10 at one point. I did have to leave the room after a minute or two of really loud stuff one time. Most of the time we kept it civil and jacked it up as our audition songs came on and for certain passages. Richard was great and had each of us running the system as we pleased.

Personally I preferred the sound of the system with no tape loop processors, although it was very good either way. Richard's Peach had an Amperex "pinch waist" in V1 and it was sweet. At full volume with no music the system noise floor out the top and bottom of the Jubs was comparable to what I get at home with my Peach/VRDs/Khorns. No more than a small amount of tube hiss which I considered completely normal.

The jubilees reminded me of a live band playing directly in front of you. The bass comes right at you like a giant lascala but much deeper and with authority that's beyond what I can describe with words. I love that front discharge. The sound fills the room in a way that it can be loud without sounding loud. The speed of the bass bin sounds more like a Khorn, not as fast as a LaScala.

The top end is smooth and has a coherency that's hard to describe. Seamless, well integrated. I hadn't heard a 2-way speaker that I know of in probably 20 years, but I really liked them immediately and kept commenting on it. That top end disperses really wide and there is a significantly reduced harshness compared to the Khorn. No laser beam horn burn at all. Nothing even close. The imaging was also very good in Richard's room. 3D all day long on all the music and concert DVDs.

There were times when we listened at really low volumes so we could talk and the Jubs shine superbly in those situations. Really really good at low volumes. This didn't really surprise me, but I took notice.

We could not hear the difference when Richard turned the active crossover delay on and off. I believe it was 2.5 msec. Couldn't hear it. The electronic crossover component was a mystery to me. I didn't spend much time looking at it. I briefly read the manual, but didn't want to spend my day getting fixated like I can. So, I put it down and let it go. It sounded great and Richard knew what he was doing operating it. Cool looking display and really low profile cabinet.

We took a break for lunch and Richard cooked up some burgers and dogs that were perfectly done on the Weber charcoals. I think I drank a whole 6-pack of diet coke during the afternoon. Richard was kind enough to have taken orders in advance for Graeter's ice cream and had it shipped to his house for us. I had Peanut butter chip and it was absolutely to die for. That was really nice Richard, thanks!

Got back inside and started the concert DVDs. Pulse...what can I say. The Jubilees really shined on the movie type stuff. Who would have guessed they'd also perform fantastic as good HT speakers [;)]

JC's Ah! CD player is a MAJOR standout. It's the best CD player I ever heard. [H] I don't know how it compares to other high end models, but mine and Richard's CD players are about the same, and the Ah! is MUCH better IMHO. Very analog sounding, pretty much invisible, nice controls. The bass lines in the Keb Mo CD we were playing were so real sounding, each note from start to finish with perfect decay. Can't say enough about the Ah! I think anyone looking for a new CD player ought to at least look at it. It really sounds awesome.

IMHO the Jubilee system is a solid improvement over the Khorn. There is really no comparison. The drawbacks have been corrected. You can get great bass from the Khorn under the right circumstances (great everything actually), but even at its best it's simply a smaller caliber weapon with older engineering. No other way to put it. In addition, I can not see any circumstance that would detract from getting top performance out of the Jubilee bass bin. It fires right at you. There's no escape other than to leave the room or turn it off. That being said IMHO I think my Khorns definitely play lower, dig a little deeper. But....it all becomes completely insignificant when all that music hits you. It's like a tidal wave. I also think the jubilee is slightly smoother all around, the 2-way top end with the tractrix configuration and especially the front discharge bass bin are what I think makes the most difference. I won't sell my Khorns but it's clear PWK and Klipsch improved on the Khorn design. Masterfully.

A close inspection reveals a fairly simple speaker system. Few parts. Of course there were no crossovers though. Just pure engineering to get said performance, very very good engineering IMO.

I would surely call the Jubilee a winner. We proved it does everything well. All types of music and at any volume. I never found anything that I felt was a weak point of the speakers. Someone needs to tell me if there IS one.

I had such a great time I still can't believe it all happened in a single day. I left the house at 6:00AM and got home at 11:00PM. What a great day with 2 really fine forum members, and great electronics. I'm sure we will get together again and it will be another great time.

I want to say thanks to Richard for being such a kind host and a gentleman. Richard, you have a great sound system, a beautiful home, and property, and nice dogs Thanks for a super afternoon.

JC, I had a fantastic time Saturday. We certainly need to do it again.

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It

seems many have asked about time delay and how the active will allow

you to correct for the potential problem in the jubilee setup. Well, Richard toggled between time delay on and off and I couldnt tell a difference.

I would like to see the option of a passive XO mature. I would prefer a one amp option to run these in the home. Heck you need very little power.

Not to argue about time-delay, but I would call into question a lot of

other variables if you couldn't hear a difference. Even if you don't

believe in time-delay, you still have phasing issues between the two

drivers, which results in a huge dip in the frequency response. 12dB at

600Hz is extremely audible - don't matter how deaf your ears are.

Attached is a picture of the before and after effects of arbitrarily

adjusting the time-delay without implementing phase compensation. I

don't claim the chart to be entirely accurate to the true output of the

system, but it's going to be of similar magnitude in the same range.

If everyone thinks I'm crazy then I would challenge y'all to run the

Dx38 in mono (sum input 1+2 to each output, which can be done in the

configuration menu in Race - make sure you select Full Edit which will

allow you to select "Route ln 1 + ln 2" at the top right). Then adjust

the time delay in real time for just one channel and note how the

stereo image gets all crazy style. Then switch between muting one side

at a time and note how the non-delayed side sounds thinner.

I wonder if there isn't some room acoustics related issue causing a

suck-out in that region - effectively masking the difference. I just

find it immensly interesting that no difference was heard. Are you guys

sure the time-delay was being switched in and out? Y'all are blowing my

mind. What music were you listening to?

As far as passive crossovers, Roy has totally provided the schenematics

and even provided the frequency response for the final system output.

If you choose to go with a different top-section then you'll have to do

some modification and should probably just start from scratch. The

smaller you go the higher in frequency you should crossover.

post-10350-13819310679506_thumb.gif

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*Are you guys sure the time-delay was being switched in and out?*

What I did was to save the current configuration into another user slot. then I went to edit that slot and removed the delay. We were then able to recall slot 1 or slot 6, depending on which one we wanted to listen to. To the degree that may have been the right/wrong way of doing it, we couldn't tell any difference. I'll try your method later on.

As for the guys comments, now that they've both chimed in, I guess I can send them their bribery checks... [;)]

I DO think they hit most everything right, especially that about my nice dogs. They were VERY well acting while JC/Mark were here. It wasn't until later that night that they turned into little hellions.

We did what they said. The one thing I'd say we didn't do was really step on the throttle. Maybe it's a matter of perspective and for them, we were cranking it. Perhaps I'm more deaf than I realized. These things will play well and sound fantastic when played at low levels. The incredible thing is, you can just keep applying more power to them. And more... and more... and more... and they will just keep getting bigger. (bigger works for me moreso than louder, although clearly they're getting loud)

I'm not suggesting I sit in the room with the volume at 80% of system capability (although I have). I'll too scoot back a bit when that's going on but it SO amazes me that I'm then standing 20 some feet away and can still feel the bass notes hitting me. The Khorns when in same room at similar levels were significantly settled down by this same distance. It's almost like 20 feet away is to the Jubilee, what 5' away is, to the Khorn.

It was very enjoyable seeing Mark & JC again. My goal was to give them the 'keys to the car' so to say and have them reach a comfort level where they honestly felt comfortable enough to do what THEY wanted without feeling self conscious about playing with someone elses stuff.

I hope I accomplished that goal.

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I definitely noticed that Richard has a high tolerance for ear pain. I admit I like to listen to loud music. My kids tell me to turn it down. But Richard is at a whole different level. His average "session listening" levels would drive me right the heck outa there.

He's got the right equipment for what he likes. That's for sure.

I'm sure we DID NOT listen anywhere's near the high end of what his system could do, but it was really loud at times.

Hey....it was a diet coke afternoon if you know what I'm saying.

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When I first heard rumor in Hope that PWK thought about replacing the Jubilee for the khorn in the product line up I knew it had to be something special.

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You know. I'm quite sure I drank a 6 pack of Coke too. Maybe High Caffiene doses curbs your ability to perceive time delay accurately.[8-|]

Again thanks Richard for your wonderful hospitality. No matter how you set up your system or what the source is....it's just gonna sound great.

There is no doubt that there is so much to be gained by visiting other folks audio setup. I got a lot out of the farmhouse at Hope and got a lot out of this weekend. It just broadens your range of experience.

I'm looking forward to the possibilty of Mark coming to my place and hearing what I have. I would love to hear his comments. Richard, you have an open invitation as well. I don't have the Jubs, but you can hear some new SS McIntosh.

jc

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Reading this is making me think that I might want to try my top hat on a Jubilee bass horn.

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Q. I know of your top hat. I might beat you to it. Your JBL 2404 will peter out though. May have to get the JBL Bullet

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A couple of Georgia boys visited Richard Albright (Coytee) today. It was a fabulous trip and I cant thank Richard enough for inviting us to his house to hear his setup. He was nothing but a great host and basically let us take control of his stereo for 6 hours.

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Richard lives in a quiet wooded place in western Tennesee. His house is very well decorated. Upon entering the back door, to the left is a large pair of speakers.which would be JUBILEES.

They sit in a room that I would guess would be 16 x 18. The jubs sat on the shorter wall. He has them in the corners but tuned slightly to point to the listening position. Much like you would do a la scala. Between the jubs is a mass of electronics. If you have been following his quest, then you are probably familiar with the equipment.

It is a two way system with an active crossover at 24dB. The top was pushed with the MCIntosh MC2102. This is MACS latest larger tube amp. The LF section was pushed by a large DBX amp. The preamp was a Peach and the tape loop was on for some of the time which ran a dbx processor and a dbx equalizer. He had a Sony SACD player and a Sony DVD player. I brought my AH! CD Player.

He had his system down to a very minimal hum or hiss. Nice.

We played a variety of music. Mine was Im sure less popular but I had some good recordings. The first impression is that the bass bins are fabulous. They really come right at you and you feel it. They remind me of a La Scala in which the bass is coming right at you but much lower in HZ. For those at Hope, YES THAT BASS YOU HEARD CAN BE REPRODUCED IN THE HOME. This was my main quest on this trip. How well does that bass sound in the home? There wasnt a bad place in the room.

He has it balanced. He has the active crossover set to Roys recommendations. I havent messed with active XOs before and have very little knowledge of them. It seems many have asked about time delay and how the active will allow you to correct for the potential problem in the jubilee setup. Well, Richard toggled between time delay on and off and I couldnt tell a difference.

The system is very accurate. You could turn it up really loud and no fatigue. Now Richard can turn them up real loud and be able to stay in the room. These things chase me out quickly. The house rattles easily.especially his fireplace. He will eventually get them in the basement. This will probably make them more amazing.

Now mark (Mark1101) was very impressed. I will let him chime in at some time to give his comments.

I have always made the statement that my ears may not be the best in the world but I guess there are things I like and dislike.whether truly bad or good.

It is really a bummer that Klipsch doesnt make a home version of these. I know it probably will never be a money maker. The Top Horn is a big sucker and it will be obtrusive to most. However, I didnt find it to be the part that I liked the most. It was those bass binsIf you are in the bass horn camp..you would die do have these if you had the chance to audition them. Im sure there are several ways you could do the top. I would like to see the option of a passive XO mature. I would prefer a one amp option to run these in the home. Heck you need very little power.

It is tough to say thisIf you love the Klipschornyou may find there is something you like even better.

More on this laterit is late and Im going to bed.

jc

hey jc,

so it sounded okay at coyotee-o's house.

i am glad.

berryboy roy

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It seems many have asked about time delay and how the active will allow you to correct for the potential problem in the jubilee setup. Well, Richard toggled between time delay on and off and I couldnt tell a difference.

I would like to see the option of a passive XO mature. I would prefer a one amp option to run these in the home. Heck you need very little power.

Not to argue about time-delay, but I would call into question a lot of other variables if you couldn't hear a difference. Even if you don't believe in time-delay, you still have phasing issues between the two drivers, which results in a huge dip in the frequency response. 12dB at 600Hz is extremely audible - don't matter how deaf your ears are.

Attached is a picture of the before and after effects of arbitrarily adjusting the time-delay without implementing phase compensation. I don't claim the chart to be entirely accurate to the true output of the system, but it's going to be of similar magnitude in the same range.

If everyone thinks I'm crazy then I would challenge y'all to run the Dx38 in mono (sum input 1+2 to each output, which can be done in the configuration menu in Race - make sure you select Full Edit which will allow you to select "Route ln 1 + ln 2" at the top right). Then adjust the time delay in real time for just one channel and note how the stereo image gets all crazy style. Then switch between muting one side at a time and note how the non-delayed side sounds thinner.

I wonder if there isn't some room acoustics related issue causing a suck-out in that region - effectively masking the difference. I just find it immensly interesting that no difference was heard. Are you guys sure the time-delay was being switched in and out? Y'all are blowing my mind. What music were you listening to?

As far as passive crossovers, Roy has totally provided the schenematics and even provided the frequency response for the final system output. If you choose to go with a different top-section then you'll have to do some modification and should probably just start from scratch. The smaller you go the higher in frequency you should crossover.

doc,

that is a good way to listen for delay problems.

berryboy roy.

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It is really a bummer that Klipsch doesnt make a home version of these. I know it probably will never be a money maker. The Top Horn is a big sucker and it will be obtrusive to most. However, I didnt find it to be the part that I liked the most. It was those bass binsIf you are in the bass horn camp..you would die do have these if you had the chance to audition them. Im sure there are several ways you could do the top.

jc,

you should have asked coyotee-o to do that test where he just listened to the hf horns and then just the lf horns. his conclusion, and i tend to agree, was that the sum was greater than the parts. we have spent alot of time working on all our horns to get them to be efficient gain devices with little coloration. to have them perform per spec so that the end user can predictably know what to expect. so needless to say, we are proud of our horns!!

i noticed on another thread, that you were progressing on your jub lf horn clones. pretty cool. in the aes paper, we listed t/s parameters for the woofers. i don't know if you have already got the woofers or not but in order to get the most of the lf horn, it would advantageous if the woofers you choose have t/s parameters that are close to the ones listed in the aes paper. just some friendly advice, is all.

berryboy roy

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you should have asked coyotee-o to do that test where he just listened to the hf horns and then just the lf horns. his conclusion, and i tend to agree, was that the sum was greater than the parts.

Roy, just a "fyi", but we DID cut the HF and then the LF horns out, listening to one at a time. It was only done for a couple seconds as I only did it to show them how crappy each half sounds!! (said with affection of course [6])

So, I/we didn't really spend any time "listening" to strictly the HF or LF horns to see how they sounded on their own, nor to try to get any sonic signature in our brains.

I just did a "fly by" cutting out using the DX well... just to do it.

[:D]

And the sum is CLEARLY better than the parts.

Actually, (and I hope you come back to read this BerryBoy) here's a question for ya...

Given your history of horns, can you listen to STRICTLY a HF horn, or a LF horn and come to a reasonable conclusion that "dang, that thing will sound fantastic" or "dang, that thing stinks"?

Meaning... take the LF on the Jubilee... can you listen to it and (qualitatively) ascertain that the LF on it's OWN will be better or worse than say, the Khorn bass bin? Can you make a judgement as to it's strengths & weaknesses when listening to it alone, again, compared to another?

The sound just seems so ... umm... disjointed? and missing? when I hear only 1/2 the speaker.

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Roy,

Actually, Richard did run just the bass bin and top section seperately one time. It sounded horrible. As soon as the two were playing together again, wonderful.

Yes, will slowly do the the jub DIY. The woofers I have aren't close to the published T/S parameters. I was aware of that. There are some that I can purchase that are very close....and very cheap I might add. This was just all gonna be part of the tinkering process.

Had some other mad scientist type ideas....may find the time for those as well.

I also want to make another note on that particular thread. You know I started that thread with the idea of an "all new" type bass bin...just for the heck of trying. Seemed all suggestions form others ended up steering me toward a jubilee. If mine sounds anything like your Bass bin....I'll be very happy.

Thanks for the input.

jc

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