RW-12d vs Sub-12

[Raider]

Besides the DSP capability of the RW-12d, how does the performance of the RW-12d compare to the Sub-12 sonically? I have a choice of buying the 12d as part of a Reference system in which it would be discounted, or buying the Reference system speakers and going to BB and purchasing the Sub12 separately. The price is close enough to call a draw, so which would perform the best? Coming at it from a different direction, if the performance is very close, how effective is the DSP section of the 12d? Using the IR port, can it be controlled by most remotes?

[TheEAR]

The gain in output is non existant with the RW12d.Both subs move about the same amount of air ax max output.

The R series you pay in this case for a more expensive woofer(looks)as cone linear should be very close to the Sub12's woofer.

The plain Sub12 cabinet is finished in "gorgeous" " fine textured black" and the R sreies in faux wood.

The "DIGITAL" part here is only the controls,not to be mistaken for room correction or digital inputs on the sub.The sub has no DSP onboard.The two upscale Klipsch subs have.

I find this DIGITAL hoopla funny,you have a nice looking LCD and controls on top.The Sub12 is a better value,and offers 95%(if not more)of the RW12d performance.

[sesante2000]

TheEar, I think thats very good to know. My only gripe was the impression that the sub-12 having a dow firing driver was at a somewhat disadvantage.

[Andy W]

The "DIGITAL" part here is only the controls,not to be mistaken for room correction or digital inputs on the sub.The sub has no DSP onboard.The two upscale Klipsch subs have.

I find this DIGITAL hoopla funny,you have a nice looking LCD and controls on top.The Sub12 is a better value,and offers 95%(if not more)of the RW12d performance.

The RW-12D actually DOES have on-board DSP (TI TMS320), though it does not have digital input since, AFAIK, receivers/processors don't have digital outputs. I have not had any experience with the SUB-12 in my listening room, so I can't compare them directly on acoustics or output, but my wife was sad to see the RW-12D go. I do agree that the SUB-12 is a good value.

[wuzzzer]

TheEar, I think thats very good to know. My only gripe was the impression that the sub-12 having a dow firing driver was at a somewhat disadvantage.

Why's that?

[TheEAR]

No disadvantage here.In the frequency range a subwoofer operates a dowfiring configuration is not negative.

[TheEAR]

The "DIGITAL" part here is only the controls,not to be mistaken for room correction or digital inputs on the sub.The sub has no DSP onboard.The two upscale Klipsch subs have.

I find this DIGITAL hoopla funny,you have a nice looking LCD and controls on top.The Sub12 is a better value,and offers 95%(if not more)of the RW12d performance.

The RW-12D actually DOES have on-board DSP (TI TMS320), though it does not have digital input since, AFAIK, receivers/processors don't have digital outputs. I have not had any experience with the SUB-12 in my listening room, so I can't compare them directly on acoustics or output, but my wife was sad to see the RW-12D go. I do agree that the SUB-12 is a good value.

And what use does this DSP serve,where is the mic to AUTOCALIBRTE the sub? I understand very well the RT subs make use of a DSP.Right on .But a digital sub would have a digital amp(a la Tact)and only the signal driving the woofer would be analog in nature.

You want to call them Digital subs,have it your way.I am not going to argue.

Just tell me what gain does this "digital" part bring in the RW-12d?

[TheEAR]

Oh yes I have a job to do today! [:@] Test the RT-10d and do come comparos. Be posting later...in a few hours. [:'(]

[TheEAR]

So I tested the RT-10d for almost 8 hours,and compared against my flock of subs.Had to move the sub from room to room as I have two audio dedicated spaces home.

First came the standard frequency tests,the RT-10d is quite capable of a solid 25Hz in the smaller room,as room gain there is very strong.With the auto calibration done it was quite flat to 25Hz and had some energy that could be felt at 20Hz.

In the larger room the sub had to work much harder and was very solid to 25Hz,again after running the auto calibration.

When music replaced test tones,it was obvious this new replacement of the RSW12 bests its the RSW12 in linearity.By a longshot The integration is better,much better with speakers from Klipsch (RF7's),Dynaudio Contour 5.4S,Paradigm Studio 80 as well as the smaller Totems. After a few adjustements the RT-10d blended great and never called attention to itself.Someting the RSW subs cannot do unless used with a dedicated outboard auto correction system.

From Quincy Jones compilations passing by Herbie Hankock,going to Enya and recordings of large drums (KODO heartbeat drummers of Japan)the RT-10d could run toe to toe with much more expensive subs(like the HGS18,B15 and company).Only when pushing over 106dB at listening position the more expensive and capable subs did noticably better. remember this is the RT-10d,the 12" version can play louder down deep and could very well be just what a larger room may need(or two)for bass heads.

The only music that no Klipsch sub can so far do justice is pipe organs,as these require at least a solid 16Hz output,often out of reach of subs costing $5000.So no real news here.

Overall the sub is very neutral,flat and has no peaks like the "punchy" RSW series,for rock N roll the RSW subs still take the cake.

Great subwoofer,and recommended for people with small and mid sized rooms. I would however not recommend them even in pairs in very large rooms,as for me a subwoofer has to at least reach 110dB at sitting position with no audible stress to pass the room test.

These are only preliminary quick tests.Nothing serious but tells alot about the character of the RT series,neutral and integrate well with any speakers you may own.This is very important.

More later...

Now I need to take Aspirin.What a pain,I should be more cautious next time.Blasting my subs ...not good for you hearing. [+o(]

[oldslow]

Ressurecting an old thread.

I'm looking for some direction on this exact same topic.

If priced equally which wouuld be the better Sub.

RW-12d or the Sub 12???

tia

[oldslow]

Bought the RW-12d

[jimmy4300]

Bought the RW-12d

Me Too!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lou

[SilverSport]

listen to the ear...he has about every sub known to man...

Bill

[Mr. RF62]

Auditioned both, bought neither.

[askbob1]

Auditioned both, bought neither.

what did you buy?

[Mr. RF62]

I bought the Paradigm Ultracube 10 and the 12. They are in different theatre rooms and I love them, the Sub-12 was impressive but big in size and didn't sound very deep. The RW-12d sounded as if it has ping pong balls in side the cabinet, port chuffing maybe.

See avatar for pic of Ultracube 10.