Sound&Vision Test Bench JLAudio Fathom and Klipsch RT12d

[Raider]

Both the JL Audio Fathom and the Klipsch RT12d are featured in the Test Bench section of the November 2006 edition of Sound&Vision Online.

The JL Fathom is a stand-alone test:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1853/test-bench-jl-audio-fathom-f112-subwoofer.html

The Klipsch RT12d is part of a test of the RF83 HT system:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1850/test-bench-klipsch-rf-83-home-theater-speaker-system.html

Interesting data for comparison.

(For those who might not know, Tom Nousaine has been testing car audio subs for many years, and is well respected for his objective testing and comprehensive knowledge of subwoofers. He is much more an objectivist than a subjectivist, but after extensive testing can offer good insight into how the testing translates into what you can expect to hear.)

[TheEAR]

[:$]Interesting,the RT-12d performs quite well,generating a max output of 110dB @ 32hz and a respectable 105dB @ 25Hz.

Versus only 106dB @ 32Hz for the f112,not good.The f113 should add 2-3dB to this figure,being at the same output as a RT-12d.Still not to my liking. I am demanding a price reduction here. [:@]

My Sunfire Signature beats these numbers @ 32hz with ease! What a joke,I am disgusted,to say the least.What is this a Tonka sub? [:$]

Wait a minute my RSW15 beats all the above at 32Hz! [:$] badly

I am going to puke....excuse me...

Ok I am back... I see after browsing thier website my Paradigm seismic 12 did 109dB at 25hz ! besting the JL f112 and RT-12d! WOW not bad for a more compact and less expensive sub!!!!

SO Paradigm Seismic 12 beats the Klipsch TR-12d on very deep bass(looking at the 25hz output)!!! Hm and is more compact,same type of design,both use a 12" woofer and twin PR's. Hmmm

Now ...pass me the puke bucket [:$]

Ok I give up,ANADA or nothing. Enough toying around,time for performance that leaves these in the dust. COUGH

Excuse the typos...its late 1:15AM here... [+o(]

[Swerv]

Those results are extremely horrible, for both subs. I hope we see some more testing done. No offense to Tom but something is not right if the RF-83 tower extends lower than the RT-12d... those graphs are pretty wack

[TheEAR]

The fact of the matter is the RF83's can extend lower than the RT subs,at a very very very insignificant output.

OT

I do not know who designed these forums and whatsoftware is used but god they are so slow it is pathetic.The old Klipsch forums were fast,this new scrap is a total waste.Who ever optimised this joke need a few lessons in optimisation and programming.

[Swerv]

The fact of the matter is the RF83's can extend lower than the RT subs,at a very very very insignificant output.

OT

I do not know who designed these forums and whatsoftware is used but god they are so slow it is pathetic.The old Klipsch forums were fast,this new scrap is a total waste.Who ever optimised this joke need a few lessons in optimisation and programming.

According to Toms' Graph the rf83s can do it at a little more than insignificant output by about 3 hz. This isnt saying a whole lot for the RT subs... unless I misinterpreted the graph... in any case both the results for the JL and the RT12 are really poor... I want another measurment on these subs.

[Q-Man]

I read the reviews a week ago, so I may be wrong.

Wasn't the JL sub measured outdoors, and the Klipsch sub in 1/8 space?

[Paul]

[:$]Interesting,the RT-12d performs quite well,generating a max output of 110dB @ 32hz and a respectable 105dB @ 25Hz.

Versus only 106dB @ 32Hz for the f112,not good.The f113 should add 2-3dB to this figure,being at the same output as a RT-12d.Still not to my liking. I am demanding a price reduction here. [:@]

My Sunfire Signature beats these numbers @ 32hz with ease! What a joke,I am disgusted,to say the least.What is this a Tonka sub? [:$]

Wait a minute my RSW15 beats all the above at 32Hz! [:$] badly

I am going to puke....excuse me...

Ok I am back... I see after browsing thier website my Paradigm seismic 12 did 109dB at 25hz ! besting the JL f112 and RT-12d! WOW not bad for a more compact and less expensive sub!!!!

SO Paradigm Seismic 12 beats the Klipsch TR-12d on very deep bass(looking at the 25hz output)!!! Hm and is more compact,same type of design,both use a 12" woofer and twin PR's. Hmmm

Now ...pass me the puke bucket [:$]

Ok I give up,ANADA or nothing. Enough toying around,time for performance that leaves these in the dust. COUGH

Excuse the typos...its late 1:15AM here... [+o(]

Yes king of subwofer fanatics,24 subs and adding if you have to know.

You need one more o in Woofer[]

[damonrpayne]

We measured the RT-12d's bass limits with it set to maximum bandwidth and placed in the optimal corner of a 7,500-cubic-foot room. In a smaller room you could expect 2 to 3 Hz deeper extension and up to 3 dB greater sound-pressure level (SPL).

Shouldn't subs be tested outside? How is this test even to be taken seriously?

[el jopez]

This is making the purchase of an RSW 15 so much more appealing now.

[Jay481985]

hmm the rf-83 dip to 2.8 ohms at 180 hertz.......

[damonrpayne]

Hasn't the RF series always been like that in lower frequencies?

[Jay481985]

i remember the rf-7 did that are 32 hertz.

[IndyKlipschFan]

That rsw 15 is a great sub,.... even with K horns.. AMAZING!!!!!

[jacksonbart]

I love my RSW-15, but the review did not seem unfavorable towards the RT12d that I could read. Perhaps I am not as good at reading those charts. A quote from the article about the RT12d "This is Olympic-class performance."

[DrWho]

I would like to see some outdoor measurements too...the results don't seem to jive at all with how I know Klipsch measures their subs (which is 1/8th space outside and the low number of hte +-3dB is the -6dB point).

I also found it unsettling when he mentioned his room was free of modes at only 7500 cubic feet []

[TheEAR]

Not worth a damn pile of smelly...you insert your gift here...the S&V review.

Seriously people, today I had the chance to compare the JL Audio f113(not the lesser f112 tested...still a great sub),the RT-12d and the Paradigm Seismic 12. Same room,same spot.

Both the RT12d and the Seismic 12 can pound out a storm down to 25hz.Not a mediocre 31.5Hz but 25Hz.It gets pretty loud by the time you hit their limits.For all around use these will satisfy in spades,both use capable 12" woofers mated to dual PR's and the jobe gets done.About equal,the Seismic 12 having a bit more headroom(smaller cabinet yes,more capable amp).

Next the f113 came,it is capable all the way to 20hz and will shake the room when need be like these two cannot even paired! The W7 woofer can move a damn lot of air.Its excursion looks to be twice of the Klipsch and Paradigm(this could be just the impression mind you). The thing is this sub disapears leaving no signature,it simply fills fills to below human hearing with authority and finesse. AMAZING!

I trust my ears,and they tell me the JL f113 is a direct contender for the Velodyne HGS/DD 15 and 18! There is no other way around this,it is the finest compact sub made.

The Rocket and SVS micro subs are pure jokes,just look at each aspect,from woofer,to amp,to audio EQ to cabinet integrity to parts quality and simply equisite attention to detail.It beats the other small subs where it counts.Expensive,you bet worth each penny.

Note it is in no way fair to compare subwoofers prices several times less.I am giving my impressions about the subs not based on price.The Fathom and Ghotam subs are as good as it gets they compare directly with Aerial,Wilson and the elite of the super high end for built quality.As good as it gets,for only $3000,a bargain.Superb and I recommend them to anyone who has invested BIG in upscale monitors or mains.S&V is targeted at the mid fier just read their reviews...SPL SPL SPL...wow tells alot about quality.Another Setero Review type mag.When I run out of toilet paper I will buy S&V.

[klipschster1]

...Seriously people, today I had the chance to compare the JL Audio f113(not the lesser f112 tested...still a great sub),the RT-12d and the Paradigm Seismic 12. Same room,same spot...

Thanx for the comparison, even if I'm somewhat disappointed with RT-12d showing based on your comments.

How then does RSW-15 stack up to RT-12d in your opinion?

The thing is this sub disapears leaving no signature,it simply fills

fills to below human hearing with authority and finesse. AMAZING!

Oh yah baby...that's what I wanted to hear...

[Jay481985]

I would like to see some outdoor measurements too...the results don't seem to jive at all with how I know Klipsch measures their subs (which is 1/8th space outside and the low number of hte +-3dB is the -6dB point).

I also found it unsettling when he mentioned his room was free of modes at only 7500 cubic feet []

isn't 1/8 spaced outside an oxymoron?

[DrWho]

Most certainly not. You just need walls long enough to effectively load all the way down to the lowest frequency you want to measure.

[kramskoi]

[:$]Interesting,the RT-12d performs quite well,generating a max output of 110dB @ 32hz and a respectable 105dB @ 25Hz.

Versus only 106dB @ 32Hz for the f112,not good.The f113 should add 2-3dB to this figure,being at the same output as a RT-12d.Still not to my liking. I am demanding a price reduction here. [:@]

My Sunfire Signature beats these numbers @ 32hz with ease! What a joke,I am disgusted,to say the least.What is this a Tonka sub? [:$]

Wait a minute my RSW15 beats all the above at 32Hz! [:$] badly

I am going to puke....excuse me...

Ok I am back... I see after browsing thier website my Paradigm seismic 12 did 109dB at 25hz ! besting the JL f112 and RT-12d! WOW not bad for a more compact and less expensive sub!!!!

SO Paradigm Seismic 12 beats the Klipsch TR-12d on very deep bass(looking at the 25hz output)!!! Hm and is more compact,same type of design,both use a 12" woofer and twin PR's. Hmmm

Now ...pass me the puke bucket [:$]

Ok I give up,ANADA or nothing. Enough toying around,time for performance that leaves these in the dust. COUGH

Excuse the typos...its late 1:15AM here... [+o(]

JL in miramar, ran a test of the f112 in a 3200 cubic feet room, in response to the test by T.N. in his 7500...10 % THD (@ 2m) (1/8 th space) as follows:

B&K mic 3" from cone center for distortion measurements/ELF trim off, ARO off, LP off, sub level to maximum

83 dB----------16 Hz

92.8 dB--------20 Hz

100.3 dB------25 Hz

maximum SPL @ 2 meters-1/8th space B&K mic at listening height

32 Hz-------112.4 dB

40 Hz-------116.2

50 Hz-------113.3

62 Hz-------117.6

average 32-62 Hz----114.9 dB

-----------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that this is stated by the mfg. and will be confirmed later by a subwoofer shootout which will take place on AVS...both the f112 and dual f113's...Now i give JL props...and having heard a few high Xmax 15" designs (in 3-3.5" peak to peak range), these should deliver the goods, however, that said, single sealed drivers are usually limited in more ways than one and usually extension takes a hit...

The Gotham should present some interesting data points once it is released commercially next year...if it is allowed to run unlimited, then i'd say "keep the cats in the cradle" and look out!

We'll have to wait on the testing to tell exactly what type of limiting is being used with these subs and also what their respective roll off rates are. This will determine if they can offer the 99th percentile extension of non-commercial designs (100th being the $25K TRW rotary sub)...While the 99th percentile won't appeal to most, once you've felt VLF infrasound (< 10 Hz) at levels which are palpable (100 dB+), DVD viewing becomes a "listening event", as the full emotional impact of the scenes are delivered with bone crushing precision and frightening dynamics...