WIre gauge for Klipssch Reference Speakers

[shashiratna]

I am about to buy Klipsch RF-83, Rc-64 and RS 62 speakers. CAn any one suggest the wire gauge I need to use to connect them please?

[colterphoto1]

Congrats on your Klipsch Reference purchase.

16 or 14 gauge is sufficient, there's a chart that tells which to use based on the length of the run. I just use high quality copper lamp cord from the hardware store.

Welcome to the Madness!

Michael

[rcarlton]

Try Roger Russell's site regarding speaker wire.

[frankphess]

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I no longer needed 15 ft. cables, so I just replaced $300.00 monster 1.4, 15 ft. biwire cables with 5'-0" of Canare 4s11 cable from Blue Jeans Cable which cost $1.05 per foot (Link above). I could not detect any differences between the two. Being 14 gauge I did twist two conductors for (pos. +) & two conductors for (neg -) though. It is very easy to strip and terminate with connectors of your choice.

[DrWho]

This is from the Roger Russell's site:

Maximum Wire Lengths For TWO CONDUCTOR Copper Wire

Wire Size	2 ohm load	4 ohm load	6 ohm load	8 ohm load
22 AWG	3 feet max	6 feet max	9 feet max	12 feet max
20 AWG	5 feet max	10 feet max	15 feet max	20 feet max
18 AWG	8 feet max	16 feet max	24 feet max	32 feet max
16 AWG	12 feet max	24 feet max	36 feet max	48 feet max
14 AWG	20 feet max	40 feet max	60 feet**	80 feet**
12 AWG	30 feet max	60 feet**	90 feet**	120 feet**
10 AWG	50 feet max	100 feet**	150 feet**	200 feet**

And this is what JBL says:

How
do I select the correct wire gauge for my speakers?
Selection of the appropriate wire gauge is important to system
operation. A cable that's too "light" will result in
amplifier power being wasted due to the series resistance of the
cable. It will also result in the loss of low-frequency performance
due to a degraded damping factor. On the other hand, a cable that
is too "heavy" is unnecessarily awkward and costly.

If in doubt,
use the chart below as a guide. For a given length of run and
speaker load, use the chart to determine the minimum wire size
needed to keep your line losses ("insertion" losses)
below 0.5dB.

It looks like they might be showing about the same thing (which is comforting).

[Islander]

I've used several lengths and sizes of wire in my system and here's what I've found:

18 gauge zip cord, 20 ft long: baseline

14 gauge speaker cable ($0.50cdn/ft), 8 ft long: much more realistic transients, like handclaps and drumbeats, clarity slightly improved, bass slightly improved.

12 gauge "home theater" cable ($1cdn/ft), 8 ft long: a little better still, in the same ways.

Monster Cable Z1-R Reference ($130cdn), 10 ft long, unknown wire size: unnatural, flat-sounding bass, unpleasant highs, returned to store after 2 weeks.

KnuKonceptz Karma Kable ($1.65/ft usd), 8 gauge twisted pair, 6.5 ft (2 meters) long: improved clarity and more realistic and "solid" bass, allowing a small reduction in bass boost on tone control.

The Karma Kable has been the best-sounding by a long way, and looks the business (that does count, admit it) with its spiral blue and silver half-inch diameter sheath. These cables were all used with Audio Logic A-750 speakers (two 10-inch bass/midrange drivers and two 1-inch dome tweeters per speaker).

When I got my La Scalas three months ago, I was able to find gold-plated 8 gauge spade connectors at a car audio shop for a solid and clean-looking connection. With the La Scalas, the receiver's tone controls are bypassed and the sound is very good.

As for charts of recommended speaker cable sizes, I think those values are fine for listening to test tones, but for actual music, which intermittently draws much more power for transients like drum beats, it appears to me that much larger cables are needed to remove any dulling of the sound and allow a natural-sounding crispness.

KnuKonceptz.com were pleasant to deal with and have quality stuff at good prices. They also carry BFA plugs, which have more contact area than banana plugs, and are a tighter fit (almost too tight) in binding posts.

Pat on the Island

[darkside]

I just use some 14AWG carol wire over 25ft lengths, works fine...

[Jay481985]

I brought 15 feet of the bluejeanscable I believe beldin 10 gauge but that was me being an ***. Just buy 12-14 gauge is fine.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Grrrrr.. I hate big fingers and keyboards.

[Champagne taste beer budget]

As for charts of recommended speaker cable sizes, I think those values are fine for listening to test tones, but for actual music, which intermittently draws much more power for transients like drum beats, it appears to me that much larger cables are needed to remove any dulling of the sound and allow a natural-sounding crispness.

As one that believes in simply large enough cables and quality terminations, I have to believe that the engineers at JBL and McIntosh Labs are aware that musical transients require more power and have figured that into their recommendations.

Bigger isn't always better, but Big Enough is important.

[Jay481985]

As for charts of recommended speaker cable sizes, I think those values are fine for listening to test tones, but for actual music, which intermittently draws much more power for transients like drum beats, it appears to me that much larger cables are needed to remove any dulling of the sound and allow a natural-sounding crispness.

As one that believes in simply large enough cables and quality terminations, I have to believe that the engineers at JBL and McIntosh Labs are aware that musical transients require more power and have figured that into their recommendations.

Bigger isn't always better, but Big Enough is important.

HAHA that works on so many levels.

[Islander]

Joking aside, I'm not falling for any hype. If I can't hear the difference, I won't spend the money. I certainly heard the difference with the Monster cables, which is why I returned them. I was surprised that a cable of apparent decent quality could actually make my system unpleasant to listen to. The larger, but less expensive, Karma Kable brought back the good sound and improved on it.

Perhaps with the high sensitivity of Klipsch speakers and resultant lower power demands the speaker cable used is less critical, but with my previous speakers, the improvements gained in going to bigger wire were very obvious.

As for the really expensive "exotic" cables, haven't heard 'em, so have no opinion.

Pat on the Island

[ibanezhater]

Wow, you can hear the difference between different speaker cable brands? Maybe you should write for Audiophile.

My best friend has a PhD in physics from the University of Chicago, and currently teaches at Brown. Flat out genius. He told me that there is no noticeable difference in sound quality between the cheap stuff and the overpriced stuff. It's just marketed to different groups of people.

I used to think he was wrong. Not anymore.

Save your money. Buy your cables at Radio Shack.

You will not hear a difference. None. Not now, not ever.

[Islander]

ibanezhater, although I gave several examples, I only wrote two things in my original post. First, that shorter length, larger gauge speaker cable sounds better, and that the improvements are more noticeable when you go up at least two gauge sizes, e.g. 18 gauge to 14 gauge, or 12 gauge to 8 gauge.

Secondly, I mentioned that Monster Cable Z1-R Reference cable made my system sound so bad I didn't want to listen to it.

I won't dispute the view of your friend with the doctorate in physics that cheap and overpriced cables sound very similar. However, large and small cables, regardless of price, do sound different. There will be an optimum size for any system, and it may not be the largest.

In this, as in many things audio, the best judge should be your own ears. Fifteen or twenty feet of generic cable is not expensive. Try some different sizes of cable and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Pat on the Island

[oldtimer]

14 guage is the maximum size that will fit into most equipment bare. Find the purest and most stranded wire at this size and you will be fine. You have to use connectors with anything larger, it's your call.

[Surround me with sound]

I bought a 500 foot spool of 12 guage because I had to run it around 120' for four of my speakers. I found a roll on the internet for $135 for 500 feet. Still have about 150 left for whatever. @ $0.27 per foot, it was a good buy. I tried to find where I bought it but I can't seem to remember. If you look hard on the net, it is there.

Good luck

[Islander]

Here are some actual wire sizes, the better to compare them. Obviously, this is the wire itself, not including the insulating sheath.

Noticing wires are soft and hard to measure exactly, I Googled and found this chart: http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm

The nominal sizes are: 18 gauge: .040" 0.8mm squared = cross section in mm.

16 gauge: .051" 1.0mm "

14 gauge: .064" 2.0mm "

12 gauge: .081" 3.0mm "

8 gauge: .128" 8.0mm "

Pat on the Island

[TNRabbit]

I bought 250' of 12 gauge copper stranded wire at Home Depot; it was under the title "outdoor light wiring"....it was only $40. Works great.

[Arky]

Strange sometimes where you find the esoteric product at those big box stores.

[MrMcGoo]

The 12 awg outdoor wire is good stuff as long as the flexibility is ok.

The bigger wire is better IMO. Most folks misuse the Roger Russel information. The minimum impedance of the speaker should be used with the chart, not the average. On long runs, the impedance dips may cause frequency response to vary with impedance on the dips. Amps may also have issues with the impedance dip. It is better to get the system ready to deal with the impedance dips, especially in the lower frequencies that use more power.

Bill