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Damping The Rear Chamber Of My Compression Drivers ?


ka7niq

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Hey, That was great! you had me rolling! LOL!!

Me BAD!

I am laughing now too.

The problem is with all of this is I have been responding to my notification emails.

Had I READ the post you made about Roy being here, all this wouldn't have happened.

BTW, I checked out the CF 4's as soon as they hit, made her pull the ports too!

They were the small port versions, indicating the might be series 2's, or even worse, series 3's.

No way I am gonna buy some speakers cross country without looking at the woofers to be sure they are not the "dreaded" series 3's, LOL

Someday, we need to "prod" Roy into finding out WHAT the crossover change he was forced to make by marketing was, so all the many CF series 2 owners can return their speakers to their former glory ?

Hey, I got an idea ?

It it possible to pull one of your crossovers and take a picture of it.

Then, maybe we can find someone having a CF 4 series 2, and get a pic of it;s crossover ?

Then, maybe Roy, or someone else can see WHAT was changed, and we can change it back.

This would be an enormous service to CF version 2 owners, and sure increase the resale value if we decide to move up to say a Jubilee, or something.

Version 1 CF 4's and CF 3's are highly sought after, yet it is hard to "give away" a series 2.

People are "scared", and rightfully so, of thinking they are getting a version 2, and winding up with the dreaded version 3, and it's different woofers.

"Different" is being kind ......

Have you tried a passive biamp arrangement, with level controls so you can back off the horns level JUST a tad ?

You must be careful not to back it off too far, or you will hear the upper end "nastys" of the woofers.

But I run mine this way, and find I seldom need tone controls.

Floyd Tool and the Canadiens have identified a "warmth curve" that most listeners find pleasurable.

Bi amping your CF 4's with controllable amps will allow you to "voice" your speaker a bit more for your room, and tastes.

But WHAT did they do to the crossover, was it simply a level increase or decrease, OR a crossover point change, etc ?

Whatever they did, I do not like it.

I am quite sure the people responsible for this change are no longer at Klipsch.

But I know myself, and several audiophiles, would pay big bucks for 5 minutes alone in a locked Anechoic Chamber with whoever is responsible for turning the excellent CF 4 series 1 into basically a glorified boom box!

Although the longer series 1 ports are not available at Klipsch, surprisingly the shorter ones still are, LOL

See for yourself what damage the shorter ones do ?

They are cheap, and you will chuckle in amazement how such a simple thing as port tuning can make or break a speaker.

If Roy ever comes back to the forum, I want to ask him about perhaps using my RANE 24 db active crossover on my CF 3 version 2's ?

It has 24 db Linkwits Riley adjustable slopes.

I can control level and crossover freq, and even compensate for time delay!

Like I really know how to do all that, but I can learn.

I wish I had never sold my CF 4 version 1's ......

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Im sure Roy will be back here soon. I think that all the CF-4's were crossed over @ 1500, and I believe that all Klipsch speakers use autofromers for the horn level in the cross overs. I have read this here many times, the guys like DeanG who does custom crossover builds for people have talked about the horn level dbs that can be changed with the autoformer taps. I dont know the schematics of the CF-4's crossovers. (We need help with this here Roy!) But if any thing else I will take some pics of the CF-4's crossovers for you to help you out! As far as biamping, I have never done so. I like what the 4ohm tap from my McIntosh MC150 does to the CF-4's, It tames the horn level down a tad, because off the 8ohm tap the horn level was a little too forward. The over all sound from the 4ohm tap is just more natural sounding.

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Im sure Roy will be back here soon. I think that all the CF-4's were crossed over @ 1500, and I believe that all Klipsch speakers use autoformers for the horn level in the cross overs. I have read this here many times, the guys like DeanG who does custom crossover builds for people have talked about the horn level dbs that can be changed with the autoformer taps. I dont know the schematics of the CF-4's crossovers. (We need help with this here Roy!) But if any thing else I will take some pics of the CF-4's crossovers for you to help you out! As far as biamping, I have never done so. I like what the 4ohm tap from my McIntosh MC150 does to the CF-4's, It tames the horn level down a tad, because off the 8ohm tap the horn level was a little too forward. The over all sound from the 4ohm tap is just more natural sounding.

He better be back, after what he put me through, LOL

Just kidding, I now think it is really funny.

Yes, they all cross at 1500 HZ, but I distinctly remember Roy telling me that besides changing the bass tuning, a crossover mod was made as well.

WHAT this crossover mod was IS the question, and mysteriously, no one knows ?

Maybe if we can see your crossover, and get someone else with series 2 CF 4's, we can compare, and see what they did ?

Remember,, I only have my series 2 CF 3's left, and the crossover might be different because of different properties of my smaller woofers ?

I am glad the Mac is working out for you.

Tonal balance in a speaker is a subjective thing, and people have different preferences.

I liked the old Forte's, great bass, and overall a nice, but little too "on the edge" for me to keep.

Plus, they are small, and looked stupid in my large room.

I have some used 78 Cornwalls, and I think the tweeter diaphragms are shot, because they do not seem to have much highs, unless you point em right at you.

I was looking at my CF 3's, and realized the center of the horn is way below my seated position.

Actually, my ear level is over the top of the speakers.

I was sitting, and thinking of how to raise em up temporarily, like on some books, or even a pillow.

Then, it came to me, I will simply sit on the floor.

So, i sat on the floor, and that places my ears right between the dual woofers, and right on center with the horn.

They sounded better!

Heart's song "Crazy on you", off the Dreamboat Annie is a good test for a peak in the female voice region.

My 801's get this right, one of the few speakers that do.

Sitting on the floor, the CF 3's did a great job, but when my head is above them, her voice screeches a bit.

Sara McLaughlin the same thing!

I lost my spikes long ago, and I think I tried tilting them back, aimed up at me, but did not like it, at my old place.

I have never tried it here in my new room.

Try it on yours, put a pillow under your arse, and sit on the floor until your ears are centered in the array.

This may not be a problem because the CF 4's are larger ?

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Heh... it was really one of the funniest hings I've witnessed on the Klipsch forum. And that's saying something.

I can't imagine anyone being offended. I mean, the guy you were telling off was the same guy you were defending... ironic to be sure, but certainly not offensive by any stretch.

Thanks for taking it in stride!

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Heh... it was really one of the funniest hings I've witnessed on the Klipsch forum. And that's saying something.

I can't imagine anyone being offended. I mean, the guy you were telling off was the same guy you were defending... ironic to be sure, but certainly not offensive by any stretch.

Thanks for taking it in stride!

Yeah Bro, I am still laughing at it all myself.

This is kind of "Heritage Country" on this forum, and liking the CF series speakers is not really "Politically Correct" I sense, so I am a bit defensive.

I honestly thought this Bodcaw Boy was some snobby Heritage owner trying to belittle my speakers, and their designer as well.

I was prepared to go to war with this guy, and remind him that I have owned two pairs of Klipschorns, La Scala's, Belle's, and a current and first time set for me of 78 Cornwalls.

The Klipschorns just never did it for me, for long.

But, it could have been my room, or what I was using too ?

The Bellles were beautiful, but they had the same "wooden sounding" coloration I hear in the Klipschorns.

The La Scala's were midrangey, with no bass, and almost screechy.

And yes, i used em with tubes of ALL kinds too, SET, Push Pull, you name it.

The Cornwalls have promise I think, but mine probably need new tweeters.

I liked the old Klipsch Forte's that DJK suggested, they were just a bit small looking in my large room, and JUST a little bit "on the edge" voicing wise.

I enjoyed my time with them.

I prefer a more "laid back" type of sound then in yer face, and I like 3 dimensional imaging.

Honestly, if the old Forte's were not in 80's Oak, and so small loooking in my large room, I would have kept them!

They had great bass, and went pretty deep too.

Maybe a Tube Amp would have "mellowed" them just a bit, for my tastes ?

I miss them in a lot of ways.

DJK suggested them, and he is right, they are a good speaker, IMHO.

He also suggests the Cornwall 2's, and I DO hear promise in my old 78 Cornwalls, and imagine the new series 2 Cornwalls are even better ?

I currently own 12 pairs of speakers, VMPS RM 40's, Von Schweikert VR 4's, B&W 801's, Klipsch Cornwalls, CF 3's, Magnepan SMG A's, Infinity IL 40's, Yamaha NS 200M's, Vintage Pioneer's, Insignia's, Gollehon's, And some JBL Decade series.

Believe it or not, the little Magnepan SMGA'a can be insanely musical ?

They are the most efficient Magnepan ever made, at 90 db, and are all Magnepan, no stupid ribbon driver made out of different material.

So, they sound like they are cut from one sonic cloth.

And, they have that big, dipole sound, and 3D imaging that you can almost reach out and touch.

I had the big Magnepan MG3 A's, with their "wonderful" ribbon tweeter that constantly called attention to itself

They didn't last here long ....

I plan to put in my Rane 24 DB active crossover and take the low bass signals from the SMGA's, so I can really crank w/o fear of harming the Mylar.

BTW, I also have the SVS Ultra Subwoofer with a bridged Ashly FET 500 feeding about 1500 watts into it.

Bass is not a problem.

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ka7niq, thanks for sharing your story of meeting PWK and telling about your granddad. It was a pleasure to read. Where did his Klipschorns finally wind up?

Pat on the Island

Good Question ?

My Mom, and my Aunt do not get along, at all.

My Mom is the younger of the two daughters,, and the pretty one, with a lot of problems.

My Aunt is a Plain Jane, who did everything right, but yet Grandpa favored my Mom.

My Aunt resented it, and still does to this day.

It is not like that for my cousins and I, we get along, and think our Mothers feud is stupid.

Unfortunately, my Aunt sold the Klipschorns to some radio and TV place in Michigan for CASH.

They probably gave her very little for them, and who knows where they went ?

I am glad you enjoyed the story about PWK, and my Grandpa.

My Grandfather never smoke or Drank, or allowed Alcohol in his home either, even though he was full blooded Italian.

He made his living at the RC Mahon company as a Steelworker, running an overhead crane

He was a Boxer, and used to fight Bare Knuckles at the Michigan State Fairgrounds.

I saw him with black eyes, and busted up face, and his answer was always to my Grandma "But Angelina, you outta see the other guy, his a face a look worse en mine"!

He ran almost every morning before work, out in the rain, or snow with his tousle cap on.

When he came down with Diabetes, he went into Denial, and refused to take care of himself.

He went blind from it.

Diabetes is a nasty disease.

Meeting PWK back in Detroit at Cobo Hall was completely by accident!

I didn't even know an audio show was going on.

My teenage Buddy's and I decided to take a BUS to Downtown Detroit, to look for girls, or a fight, or some kind of adventure.

Someone got the bright idea to go to Cobo Hall.

I also met Bob Carver there, and much later, when I moved out to Seattle, Bob and I became friends!

He does not remember meeting me in Detroit, but he was showing off his Phase Linear Andromeda Speaker

I actually heard the solid state amp that Bob took to Stereophile, and made sound just like a tube amp!

Bob called me and several other Seattle audiophiles to come over and hear for ourselves.

So, I drove out to Snohomish, Wa with my music teacher friend Bob Pennington, and we both heard it.

It sounded EXACTLY like a Conrad Johnson Tube Amp, and Bob had one there to compare.

I wonder if any Klipsch fans remember the Bullshit buttons Paul and his guys wore at the Cobo Hall show ?

.

.

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and Duke Spinner is Duke Spinner, at least I THINK he is.

Not Exactly .....

itsa local inside joke

" Duke " Spinner... was a loud, flamboyant jazz band leader, and music store owner back in the '70's here in NY

And YOU are he, right ?

I can honestly say that of ALL the Internet Forums I frequent, I like this one the best, people wise.

There is TONS of knowledge here, w/o the attitude and snobbiness of some other forums.

Off the subject, I just read the thread between Al Klappinburger and Roy Delgado!

Holy Smokes!

I can see both sides or the "argument", and BOY how I wanted to jump into that thread.

Had I seen it when it was still relevant, I would have jumped in!

I would go one step farther the Al did, and tell Klipsch to hire Audiophiles who can HEAR to assist with the designs!

And, not that Klipsch designs aren't any good either.

They are, but they could be even better IF they hired audiophiles like myself, and several others who are not "Pro Klipsch" only, and are more objective and AWARE of the other fine speakers out there!

AL argued he is an expert at filter design, and Roy is an expert at Horn Design.

Being a good Dentist does NOT make one qualified to transplant Kidneys.

I really feel that ANY company using Veteran Audiophiles who have owned hundreds of great speakers like myself would have a BIG competitive advantage in the marketplace.

I can say that SOME Klipsch speakers, and some from other manufactures would have NEVER got by my ears!

Roy, in his tag like, likes to call himself a "pain", LOL

With all due respect to Roy, he don't know what a PAIN is.

A "Pain" can be best described as a fussy veteran audiophile who will make him "burn the midnight oil" UNTIL the design sounds right!

IF AL and Roy ever DID "get together" they would never have time to argue or hate each other.

They would HATE me, for I would send their respective arse's back to the chamber and computer UNTIL the design pleased me, and the other Audiophiles involved.

KLIPSCH, are you listening ?

You NEED "Beta Tester" in the field, listening to your stuff in their homes, BEFORE it ever gets to market.

Think of the marketing implications, and how much more product you will sell ?

Find a group of well known audiophiles, and send them out speakers with attached external crossovers, so they can try out different "voicing decisions".

I am sorry Klipsch, but IMHO, you should have taken Al up on his offer!

Al is a well known filter designer, and his input could ONLY have improved sales.

LOOK at all the people who have bought his crossovers, and the crossovers of others.

This means that SOMETHING is WRONG!

Listen to, and observe your customers, they feel the need to modify their speakers because they ain't right to begin with.

Swallow your "pride", and embrace those who wish to help.

A NEW Klipsch product, designed as a collaboration between Al, Klipsch, and beta tested "in the field" by several well known, VISIBLE audiophiles, will make any person want to buy THAT product.

The audiophile community will Rally because "people from their own ranks" had a SAY in the final design!

Now, Klipsch, think about this ?

IF I were a perspective customer for a NEW Klipsch product, and I visited this forum, WHAT woukd I find ?

I will tell you what I would find, a bunch of people going to heroic measures to get their speakers to sound like they wanted.

Not exactly "confidence inspiring", EH ?

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of ALL the Internet Forums I frequent, I like this one the best, people wise.

There is TONS of knowledge here, w/o the attitude and snobbiness of some other forums.

Attitude = AKarma

Snobby = Lansing Heritage

ok = AA

Great = Klipsch

I would rank it different, a little bit ?

I think AA is snob city

AudioKarma is pretty cool, MAYBE because I am originally from Michigan ?

Never been to Lansing Heritage

Klipsch is GREAT!

So is Wayne Parhams

What do you THINK about Audio Circles ?

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Audio Circles ? Pathetic !!!!!!

I THOUGHT it was JUST me ?

I was new on that forum, and I got flamed big time by a poster there.

I returned the insult, and the next thing I knew, I was knee deep into it with some "Global Moderator", LOL

He informed me that he had seen one of my arguments on another board, and that IF I thought I was going to "pull that stuff" there I was sadly mistaken, LOL

Turns out, it was his "buddy" who flamed me to begin with.

Lot's of "Politics" going down there me thinks ?

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Hmmm, I see ole Mike what's his name, "Magnetar" at that Audio Circle place. Now there's a guy that's never satisfied. He brought this setup to the MWAF, very dynamic to say the least. One of his SETs burned up and I loaned him a Fisher SA-100. This rig would do Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida at lifelike levels with the little Fisher.

post-6913-13819317569056_thumb.jpg

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