maxg Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 I posted this on audioreview and thought I would share it here, expecially as it is the Heresy's that make this sing.... OK - you've got this great system, fabulous room accoustics and a fine source - is there anything else to add to that? In a word - yes. There is one more thing that is ultimately probably more important than any of those things when it comes to enjoying music, especially classical music. That one thing is the performance. Listening to a truely great performance surpasses all of those minor system tweaks, bass traps and arguments over the relative merits of SACD vs DVDa or even vinyl. I now own 30 SACD's. One would make it into my "Must have on a desert island" list (you are allowed 9 in total). If you have never listened to, or liked, classical music. If you think that you would never own more than one classical recording in your entire life. Whatever your situation, if you own an SACD player you MUST get hold of this recording: Sergei Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No.3 with Arcardi Volodos as the pianist and James Levine conducting the Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra - from Sony themselves. (www.sonymusic.com/sacd) If you do not own an SACD player - buy one, and then get this recording. I am not joking here. I have heard/owned 7 different recordings of this piece (arguably the most difficult piano concerto ever written) from an original '78 my father owned of Vladimir Horowitz as the pianist (recognised as the best performer to date of this concerto even including Rachmaninoff himself). A re-recording of Rachmaninoff playing it on a '45 and no less than 4 cd recordings ranging from down right dreadful to vaguely acceptable. This is the best I have ever heard. Arcadi Volodos must be the best pianist of our generation, I cannot imagine better, and he is only 30 years old - who knows what lies ahead. Imagine one piece with the impact of Beethoven, the delicacy of Mozart, the gentle rythms of Straus, the lyrisim of Grieg and so much more. This is it. Oh yes - and for the audiophiles this also happens to be the best quality recording on SACD I have heard to date too. If anything it has too much detail - I dont mind hearing the pedals on a piano being pressed and released but I think that hearing the material of the pianist's trousers shift as he does so is probably beyond the pail! Am I making myself perfectly clear here??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 28, 2001 Author Share Posted November 28, 2001 Just testing to see if my signature is working - please ignore. ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 deang Speaking of 'Alice Cooper.' I've been looking for 'Pretties for You' and 'East Action' on CD for several years. I haven't found them yet. Would you know of a source or if they have even been released on CD? My 30 year old albums are shot!..:-( I sure could go for a clear version of 'Titanic Overture' and 'Fields of Regret.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eglinski Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 Hey, guys I am an Alice Cooper fan also for aprox 31 years I seem to remember doing a general search for Alice Cooper and getting various search results I went to many of the websites and did find complete listings of all his (their) albums including imports, re-issues and lots of obscure stuff, A little digging and you will find tons of info, good luck. I also had pretties for you and easy action albums in my youth. I would love to find the concert on video of the first "in concert" ABC Network starring the Alice Cooper band from 1972 just before Schools out was released. I still remember watching that in simucast at age 14 and still remember the words,and the look on my dads face watching Alice starting the show Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 Yup,I've checked CD Universe,CD Now,Collector's Choice,Amazon and several other sources including Rino...No luck,I guess they're not in print....yet. I remember the first 'In Concert' with AC. I can still remember him throwing diplomas to the audience as 'Schools Out' was performed.It was several months before 'Billion Dollar Babies' was released. Since it was near the '72 elections,he also performed 'Elected.'which was on B.D.B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy Posted November 28, 2001 Share Posted November 28, 2001 Deang, sacd discs are no longer $30 bucks like you posted..lol they are selling for about $20 bucks now and cheaper if you buy them from ELUSIVEDISC.COM..anyway you sound like someone whos very biased against the sacd format without actually having heard a good sacd disc...believe me when you do you WILL buy a sacd player I guarantee it!!! Just think compact discs that sound as good or even better then the very best sounding dts dvds in the world!! ------------------ MY GEAR: YAMAHA RXV795a RCVR PARASOUND HCA-1500 driving the front speakers KLIPSCH RF-3 KLIPSCH SC-1 CENTER CH SPEAKER BOSTON ACOUSTIC REAR CHANNEL SPEAKERS MIRAGE SS-1500 DIGITAL SUBWOOFER SONY DVP-NS500 COMBO SACD/DVD PLAYER PANASONIC VHS HIFI VCR SONY MXD-D3 MINIDISC/CD RECORDER PLAYER RCN DIGITAL CABLE TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 'Welcome to my nightmare' 'Years ago''Steven' and 'Cold ethyl' YEAH! I wish I could afford a SACD audio player. IMO, I think they are a little spendy yet for general consumers. Down the road possibly, maybe Sony will get more desperate. I've read nice things about them, and they play Redbook's very well. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 did you realize that sacd players are only $300 bucks now??? come on guys keep up with the times..lol things are changing fast...sony is gonna bomb dvd audio outta town just like we are bombing the taliban!! ------------------ MY GEAR: YAMAHA RXV795a RCVR PARASOUND HCA-1500 driving the front speakers KLIPSCH RF-3 KLIPSCH SC-1 CENTER CH SPEAKER BOSTON ACOUSTIC REAR CHANNEL SPEAKERS MIRAGE SS-1500 DIGITAL SUBWOOFER SONY DVP-NS500 COMBO SACD/DVD PLAYER PANASONIC VHS HIFI VCR SONY MXD-D3 MINIDISC/CD RECORDER PLAYER RCN DIGITAL CABLE TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 What about us "weird folks" who listen to more demanding music than Billy Joel & James Taylor? The straight-up CD format will be THE format for more underground music for a long time. Until they release ufORB by The Orb or 76:14 by Global Communication on a superior format than vinyl or CD I'm not budging. Jeez what next .38 Special on SACD? You know what? People will buy it. As the wise elder Beavis once said "You can't polish a turd.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 What audio purist would own a changer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 Changers work very well and allow the use of computer interfaces to locate and program CDs.... a lot has been written that indicates that the transport is relatively unimportant when playing CDs ... it is the processing that counts.... jitter reduction and good DACs are what is most important ... SACDs are very interesting especially the multichannel ones .... While upsampled and digitally enhanced CDs (16/44.1 to 24/96) can sound as good as LPs (I think better - NO surface noise!); the SACD offers yet another dimension: they seem to produce a greater depth particularly noticeable in classical recordings (the orchestra is larger sounding and more enveloping). I am listening to an Earth, Wind and Fire "Gratitude" multichannel SACD as I write. I love the presence and rear channel crowd noises. While the DAC in the Sony CE775 changer I bought isn't as good as my Perpetual Technologies P3A w/ Dan Wright mod, it is surprisingly good. I got the changer for less than $300. Thanks, I think, to the format war which Sony/Philips are not about to lose. SACDs are now appearing for $16-18 and I predict the Hybrid {PCM, SACD stereo, Multi-channel) version will replace regular CDs altogether eventually. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 12-01-2001 at 04:15 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 eglinski: Have you seen the Alice Cooper concert DVD recorded in London a couple years ago?..does many of his classics. An average 5.1 mix and sound, but it's fun! PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 maxg there don't seem to be too many people around here who listen to classical music (which is a shame!), but I am one of them and I also know the Volodos recording of the third Rachmaninoff. I can't tell if this is my favourite recording of the piece (I also like the 1978 Horowitz/Ormandy recording and one by a totally obscure German pianist called Kai Adomeit) as I don't consider myself a Rachmaninoff expert. When it comes to the sound quality of the Volodos recording I must say that at first I wasn't that thrilled, but having read your post I shall certainly go back to it and listen again more carefully. Perhaps I will also spot the pianist's trousers (can you give me a hint where one can hear this????) Of course I am talking about the normal CD version. I must say that my only encounter with SACD wasn't really encouraging. About a year ago my local dealer had organized an Accuphase workshop (not a brand I particularly take to!) and that included the demo of a pretty expensive SACD player. Granted, the speakers (I think some fairly large Cabasse model) used struck me as not compatible with the amp, but altogether I had expected more from this new technology. The recordings they played (I think some Jazz and Pop recordings) sounded slightly different, but it certainly was no AAAHHHH-experience. It all seemed to be a bit smoother on the ears, but definitely not worth the large sum of money involved. I certainly doubt that a $ 300 Sony will sound better than this multi thousand $$$ player. Adding to this the fact that buying SACDs locally is almost impossible, I must say that I am in no hurry to invest again in a new player and new software. But perhaps it was just the Accuphase/Cabasse combo or I had a lousy day... BTW: Perhaps in a tube based system things might have turned out differently!?! Wolfram ------------------ The latest survivor of the dangerous tube bug! system: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp McIntosh Mc 2105 McIntosh C 29 McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Alternative speakers: Quad ESL 63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 So are single play SACD players in this price range currently? Some people like changers some people don't. (Sorry about the slam on changers.) Hell, if SACD audio is getting this cheap, I'll wait a year a so until they saturate out there a little bit. Hmmmm, used? The CD's IMO, are a tad spendy still,(Though down around twenty bucks.) THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovedrummin Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 Just to stir the pot a bit for you Coop fans, dvdplanet.com lists A.C.'s Billion Dollar Babies on DVD-Audio, but currently out of stock. My wife, also a Coop fan, just picked up a copy of the DVD Welcome To My Nightmare (Rhino label), but we haven't had a chance to watch it yet. Special features:New Alternate AC Commentary Track, Memorabilia Quiz & Game, New "Never-Before-Seen" 25 Min. AC Interview, & 5.1 Stereo & and Animated Menus. It clocks in at @109 min. Track Listing: The Awakening, Welcome To My Nightmare, Years Ago, No More Mr. Nice Guy, I'm Eighteen, Some Folks, Cold Ethyl, Only Women Bleed, Billion Dollar Babies, Devil's Food, The Black Widow, Steven, Escape, School's Out, & Department Of Youth. As it says on the box - Pleasant Dreams LEW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleggatt Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 You guys should all move to Canada. I can go to the store and buy almost any redbook CD for around 14 dollars CDN in my neck of the woods! That works out to roughly 9 dollars US!! You guys are almost paying 30 CDN for these disks! Even on HMV.com you can find most cd's for around 12 USD, of course there is shipping on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 30, 2001 Author Share Posted November 30, 2001 Dubai - I cannot comment on the CD version of the Rack 3 by Volodos as I have not heard it. AS for your less than impressive SACD experience and how it would relate to my own setup I think you might be surprised at how good SACD can sound for comparitively minor costs. Recently I went to the local High End audio show. Sony were there with approximately $90,000 worth of setup including 5 speakers at $10,000 each, 3 power amps at £8,000 each a surround sound pre-amp at $8,000 and their top of the line 777 player. All connected with some seriously expensive cables. It sounded dreadful - and I mean bad. God only knows what they had done with the setup. The basic trouble with these suppliers is that they seem to have no ear for a setup and cannot tell dross from the good stuff. The laughable thing is that my setup (below), using approximately $7,000 worth of the equipment blows the sound they created away - simply because I have taken time and effort in setting it up right. BTW - I see that you are not a fan of Accuphase. Have you ever tried a 407 on your KHorns? See if you can get a loaner for the job - you might be surprised! ------------------ 2 * Heresy 2 (mains) 2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears) Accuphase E211 amp. Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (solid state). Marantz CD6000 player Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player Stax Headphones Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver Sharp Video 32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV Mogami interconnects Silver Synergistic speaker cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 30, 2001 Share Posted November 30, 2001 maxg, I certainly agree with you that the $$$ spent on equipment doesn't guarantee quality. Just yesterday when I went to my local dealer to return a borrowed amp (I did that before I got my 300B tube amp) the Cayin representative who happened to come around listened to the dealer's ML/Avalon combo - we are talking about 25.000 + here! It didn't take him more than a few recordings to indicate that the sound produced was anything but involving - he found it not even natural. It's indeed a question of synergy between components and one's own taste. Maybe you are right about the 407, but I must admit that right now I am in tube heaven (and if that feeling doesn't last - which I doubt!, I still keep my Mc gear which I have found more balanced than most Accuphase equipment I had a chance to listen to - admittedly not with any Klipsch speaker though). The ony Accuphase piece I found interesting was a big preamp which is no longer produced (sorry, but I can't recall the model) which for once sounded less harsh than what I had heard until then. Still, what matters is that you are pleased with your amp and enjoy the music you like. When it comes to SACD I am in no hurry, but depending on development on the software front I might try again in the future. Wolfram ------------------ The latest survivor of the dangerous tube bug! system: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp McIntosh Mc 2105 McIntosh C 29 McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Alternative speakers: Quad ESL 63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 30, 2001 Share Posted November 30, 2001 I've had an SACD player for a couple of months or so, and I love it. I bought the Sony DVP-NS500V from the Oade Brothers in Georgia for $250. They are an excellent place to deal with, and an authorized Sony dealer. www.oade.com if you are interested. Anyway, this machine sounds great and is also a DVD player. I am not interested in multi-channel, I don't like it even for movies so I use it in stereo with my Klipschorns. I have not read a single post anywhere by anyone who actually has an SACD player that is not 100% favorable. But, shortage of titles is another matter, and although it is a drag right now, it'll be much better in 2002. There are literally thousands of titles in queue to be manufactured that have already been mastered. Yes, the machines started two years ago at $5000. But now they are $250. Nobody can object to that, certainly. The titles are no longer expensive either, unless you get the product of the small audiophile companies. The local Best Buy has 100 Sony titles at $16.99, and I bought ten when they had a $2 off sale recently. The local Circuit City just started carrying them and doesn't have anywhere near the selection, and they are $19.99 each. When Sony has hybrid releases out in abundance next year, and if they keep them at their low price, how can they not be successful? If you want CD, you can buy them, and if you want SACD, you can buy them. SACD does not lend itself to demonstrations in stores. Both Best Buy and Circuit City have poor demos going. SACD is not about splash. You're not going to hear flashy sharper more brilliant this and that. You're going to hear good solid pure music, the kind you can enjoy all day long, the kind that will hold up for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 Paul- Well put - I think that's exactly what Sony/Phillips is up to - they are going to replace the regular CD with the Hybrid which will contain a variety of options: PCM CD, super stereo CD and super stereo multichannel - something for everyone. I like stereo through my Klipschorns also but the multichannel through a good full range system - I use LaScalas and Heritage speaker components for center, side and rear surrounds - could offer some real possibilities to duplicate the ambiance and excitement of a live performance. Anyway with Hybrid I could use the disk in my changers, in my car, or in an SACD multichannel player. Plus I wouldn't be able to make copies on my computer - something I don't like but I bet the record companies love. If they brought the price down (actually I buy CDs through record clubs for an average of about $7. each, which I think is a fair price) I'd be happy. Now if they could also add a video stream to the Hybrid (and you know someday they will). In the meantime concert and music video DVDs with both PCM and 5.1 tracks (could an SACD track be added??) are available on sale for $14.95 and they contain an hour two of fun. I think today's technologies and their future possibilities are really exciting! ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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