IndyKlipschFan Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Of course!!! And that's the point! NOW...... take a breath..... you have (what again is IMO) the speakers you dreamed about, Klipschorns that reproduce just what they were designed to do in your room... Wonderful, powerful, and occasionally yes.. "Boom Boom" bass too.. hehehehehehehehehe No rattles, just awesome lows that your going to love into your room! The before and after is THAT dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 isn't it great when it all comes together!! roy delgado Yeppers... U got that right, for sure! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I can't believe they've been just three boards short for all these years! [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Ben - But that's the thing.... if it was this easy, sooooo many people would have done this mod. So I'm skeptical. I.e.; is this really a simple mod that people poo-poo'd and ignored with passivity for 50-60 years? Or.... did they take the literature (min. 48" wall) as gospel? Sort of like desires to keep raw birch plywood as if a rare wood? I mean, I'd like to know how this paradigm shift took place that just with adding boards - one could eliminate the corner? So Indy - are you saying they sound as good as in proper corners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 If all counted up 26 cut boards actually.... LOTS of screws..... measure the wood 2 times (Or more) and cut once.. OK, sometimes twice, and sand too. The below is what we got out of the Baltic Birch 3/4" 4' x 8' sheet (except for the 1" x 1" top and bottom braces 12"- 14" in length. 4 sides.... 2 backs 4 top braces.. (1" by 1" Width squares... looking at the end where the length of them sideways is approx 12" - 14" in length.) 8 middle ones (these make the backs stiff 3/4" BB) 4 bottoms (We used the 3/4" BB to stop Bass from going into your carpet/ floor.) 4 bottom braces (Again the 1"x1" the length of the 4 side bottoms) Ben - But that's the thing.... if it was this easy, sooooo many people would have done this mod. So I'm skeptical. I.e.; is this really a simple mod that people poo-poo'd and ignored with passivity for 50-60 years? Or.... did they take the literature (min. 48" wall) as gospel? Sort of like desires to keep raw birch plywood as if a rare wood? I am sure I am not the first. It takes a little faith too. I heard the 60th anniversary ones and they were 4-8 inches out from the corners... The 48" came from a 4' x 8' piece of plywood cut in half.. 8 feet is 96" cut in half is 48" hmmm Yes you still need the extension of the walls but like Roy, Myself, and others have pointed out 12" or less into that corner.. so again you can tow them out some ...NOW you have them sound like they were intended. They will use the wall from that point on after this mod to complete the lower octives but your not required to have them now snuggly fit in that corner. I provide here, the diagram most have seen on what the wall should be too.. I point out it will probbaly vibrate and flex as well, but be far better than your wall you probbaly have now. The optimum might be just 2x4's stacked screwed into one another the height of your bass bin all together... so 48" out of 2 x 4's..LOL The problem STILL will be you will have to somehow screw your K horn into that wall of 2 x 4 's to form a perfect seal? So, besides perhaps 100 lbs or more of wood..as the perfect new back wall for your K horns LOL.. Your, perhaps, still going to have not a 100% closed seal to it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 meagain... I mean, I'd like to know how this paradigm shift took place that just with adding boards - one could eliminate the corner? So Indy - are you saying they sound as good as in proper corners? OK, I will say this in two parts... And again, my mod is a copy, or as close to it, from what I have heard and seen done in the 60th Anniversary Klipschorns. It is THAT dramatic, and I never heard K horns sound this fantastic too! And again, I heard the (60th anniversary ones) not tucked into a corner at all, probably 6-8 inches out.. OK, so a 1 and a 2. 1) Yes... you still need a corner to complete the lower octives..but with this mod it does not have to be dead set into the corner.. I think Roy has said they can be as far as 12" out. I can verify I have them toed in where they need to be now. I also now have solid clean wonderful bass, where it was very weak before.. FYI, One side of each K horn is close to being against the wall but not horizontally against it though, but the other is not. (Because of toe ing is out several inches, but not near 12".) So the side walls still are used to extend the lower register... it is just not critical to have it all in the corner at all with this mod. The sound is shot out at the sides as designed, and the walls nearby not so critical to be so close (airtight seal) complete it. Again, the beauty of this mod is the elimination of "dreaming" to get a perfect seal. Or even if you do, one that does not vibrate the heck out of your listening environment adding or taking away energy of who knows what to it too. Now with this mod, I suppose you could extended the backs out to that "imaginary 48" out" if that is what in fact somehow to gain the full 100% 33 htz in your room nirvana. Klipsch stated "negligible improvement will be obtained farther than 48" But Klipsch nor paul ever said just how far up to 48" was required? I am not a sound engineer. I do not know how far out it really needs to be as well.. With my mod your wall is still used and I am sure needed... but again, they just do not need to be snug in the corners at all. Your effectively sending the side throw still into the walls where it extends it from there... I guess... you could, "technically if no walls were close to your K horns," eliminate real your corners of your room all together. But you still need artificial ones. You could do this I guess by extending the backs I suppose to 48" out. This, in effect, is what a Jubilee bass bin does... It completes the bass bin, even bends it back into the room some, too, with one more fold forward. It also uses more bracing too. (I will let Roy add his thoughts to this) Look at a Jubilee bottom cabinet you will get what I mean. The bass is not thrown to the sides it is thrown out to you.... No corner is needed at all probably for Jubilee owners. So if your one of those "I must have the speakers 3 feet out from any real walls in the middle of the listening room type...LOL. Go for the 48" and tell me what you think? But, if you do this, maybe what you do is have a flat 3/4" Birch plywood false bottom, and 2 3/4" side walls the height of the bass bins and going 48" out. Now set the K horn speaker into it.. Screw it into the frame.. Wait.. Your still going to need bracing so it does not vibrate so were back to the ultimate who knows how many 2"x 4" 's all screwed together 48" out as tall as your bass bins and a 3/4" floor ...and a "hope" of a good seal when your done? But why do this? Unless you need one side, (where there is no wall at all behind them) where literally maybe your speaker(s) are in the middle of the room perhaps? These are K horns, they need a wall to complete this bottom octave. You just do not need them snug at all in the corner anymore if your doing the 60th mod/ what I did mod wise, because your existing walls will complete the bass. So a long winded explanation to this is this... I am sorry, I just wanted to be complete as much as possible. My second point. 2) I personally think they are as good, if not better, (So no vibrations.. 100% of the bass energy does go out into your room now, too!) as any K horns in a perfect corner. But as I have stated.. getting a perfect corner, with a perfect solid no vibration back for your K horns with drywall or whatever, AND sealed 100% air tight.. is next to impossible. And that is before your, "Is the room the right dimensions so that the sweet spot is 100% perfect for my listening position?" Look, bottom line is this... If Klipsch is now making this mod on the new K horns arguably the best sounding ones ever produced...(and they sound as beautiful IMO as they look <the 60th ones>...) And now I have heard and duplicated this mod myself and agree on my own speakers too this dramatic difference... ... So now after doing this to my own, I can agree and understand how and why this mod does improve the sound amazingly well.... on sooo many levels does make sense.. In a corner or not.. The energy 100% gets to you now.... In some ways.. Klipsch thought this was the right direction to take.. For their ultimate Klipschorns. I wanted to take that direction and see if I agreed with them too. I DO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 After sleeping on it some last night, (I stayed up late lots of different kinds of music... AND hearing them today wooo hooooooooooo, these are nice!) I am still smiling. [] The bottom line to this whole quest is this..... If we are to assume 2 things... 1) A proper seal makes a K horn "play" like any fine instrument, 100% to it's capacity. To test our theory just pull the backs off of your other speakers like a Cornwall etc., and see how they sound..(Weak right?) Now pull your k horn in and out of a corner you tell me what you hear too? That lower bass will almost disappear or at least be under utilized out too far... Right? 2) Anything that sends 100% of that information to the sides and thus into your room benefits your listening environment. After you try this mod... Put them back into a corner... But remember, they do NOT have to be sealed anymore, OR having the flexibility to "toe" them in to a certain degree close to a wall. I still say this mod is 100% effective, and works to really dramatic results. I would not be surprised at all if this trickles down to ALL of the new K horns at some soon future date. (My thoughts and opinions, I do not know this for sure to verify it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 BTW, Pat the woodworker and fellow BB memeber (Speedball) posted this.. "Before we sealed the backs of the speakers I was able to audition them with music for about 30 minutes or so and was shocked to hear a lack of bass with different kinds of music. I thought to myself....man, this guy has a great looking speaker that 'should' be capable of at least mediocre bass especially with 200 watts of solid state power. Today after the project was done there is a definite improvement in the bass department....BIG improvement! This project is 100% reversible if a person would like to go back to the original condition without any damage to the speaker cabinet. I must admit this has been one of the most interesting and fun projects I have ever worked on." Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 speakerfritz said as well, ""I suggest if this works, a lot of you will try it yourself too." It works, I did this in 1986 on a pair of K-horn clones built 15% oversize. It actually worked so well that I used the k-horn clones out in open (no corners) fields, for organizational parties with 3000 or so folks, that covered an area a little larger than a football field." Hmmm, another Happy Customer! Not that you want a football field of sound in your family room? Or do you?? hahahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 pics Pics PIcs PICs PICS PICS!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyMo Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Pics Pics Pics, Id like to try this on my Clones. Harley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 26 boards, braces, 100 screws, and a quart of glue?? Man, you guys just love to do everything the hard way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 DeanG, what the heck is that??? It looks like surgery on the back of a K horn.. Is this how you BOLTED yours to a back.. Pretty cool!!!! You made a platform, right, for them to bolt into / sit in? Maybe you can attest what a dramatic difference, IF sealed in correctly like you did, or my mod is as well! I respect your opinion. BTW, I am using the Aragon Stage One and Aragon 2007 Amp (200 watts per channel) unit with the K horns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Indy... where the heck are the pictures? It ain't easy to understand you when you are talking about ordering dinner... trying to understand what you did with 26 boards, 100's of screws and a quart of glue is damn near impossible... show us the pics and where all those boards went. Dean, perhaps you have some pics of exactly what that is you did as well? You might actually be able to verbalize it tho' well enough for some to understand. [:^)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 My babbling and pictures are here: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/5/401929/ShowThread.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Dean, Is that where you attach the speaker jumper cables? Indy, Tsk,tsk. We need pictures, we can't read! Oh yeah, Cut measurements and complete directions that we can refer to when we screw up. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I would imagine Roger may post some pics when he gets time. Every once in a while he would be standing over me snapping a picture, we did not really take enough time to document every little thing. Anyone that can cut a sheet of plywood reasonably straight and operate a screwgun could do this. The "tailboard" is now 9-1/4" wide with two plywood panels on each side extending forward towards the fabric, with all of it being recessed flush with the outside dimensions of the cabinet, also some blocking underneath. Would have been nice to work on them in a shop but transporting is too risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspr Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hmmm...so if you installed the new panels "recessed flush with the outside dimensions of the cabinet", haven't you reduced the size of the intended final flair by the thickness of the panel??? The way Dean did his avoided this. Maybe not a big deal considering the rave reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 There were no panels to begin with on the sides..........maybe the tailboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I know you took photos Roger, c'mon man... From my understanding- it's not the lowest octaves that suffer when the Khorn is pulled from the corner, but a big hole appears around 200-300 Hz. This could be as much or more damaging to the frequency response, depending on room size and how far out they were moved. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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