scottyg Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Can someone recommend an entry level record player around 300 dollars ?? Can someone also breakdown why records are better than cd ? Last but not least will I be wasting my time with a record player if I am hooking it up to a modern day yamaha 2600 ?? I never listened to records but I keep hearing that the the sound is far superior than cd ? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 www.audioadvisor.com has some entry level record players though I can't say how good they sound. Used is a good way to go, some LP freaks are doing the old Technics direct drive thing, such players are readily available and generally reliable. As to whether LPs sound better than CDs is a matter of opinion, not fact, some think LPs sound better and some don't. I use LPs and CDs and both sound good. IF (and it's a big if) LPs are superior then they're superior with a Yamaha as well as with anything else. Make sure your Yamaha has record player inputs, much modern gear doesn't. You can't just plug a record player into normal inputs, specialized ones are used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 ScottyG Used turntables are good options, with qualification, you might need a new needle, and perhaps maybe even a better cartridge. I had a decent traditional rig which included a turntable, open reel, and a amp about 30 years ago. At the time, the LP sound was super. I remember buying a high end pickering cartridge (90 bucks in 1976) and tweaking it with some very small caps to optimize my phono inputs. However, I spent recent decades with CD's and SS equipment. Recently I decided to re-evaluate the LP and tube scenerio. I bought a pioneer PL-530 direct drive turntable with original box and manual on ebay for 110 bucks. It included a cartridge and needle, but I didn't expect much from the OEM needle. I also picked up a pickering XV-15 1200E cartridge which is claimed to be new and unused for 60 bucks. I have a source for a needle for the pickering if it turns out the needle is beat. However, since my tube pre-amp does not have a phono section, I am on the hunt for a tube phono stage pre-amp. I picked up a Project SE SS MM/MC phono stage pre-amp for use until I find a tube phono stage. The Project SE has super spec's. I paid 100 bucks for the Project SE. So I await the phono pre-amp to start. It should be here any day now. I am hoping to score a decent tube phono stage. Goal is to compare a complete SS rig to a complete tube one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I am sure that you are going to hear many suggestions, but may I suggest Thorens if you go the used route and a Music Hall 3 if you go the new route. As previously mentioned, you do want to make sure your receiver has a phono pre-amp built in or you are going to need to add an outboard unit as well. As far as which are better, LPs or CDs? Hmmm...Let's just say there are good and bad examples of each! Which would you like us to address first? I will suggest that CDs offer an immeasurable advantage if you are 'amourously entertaining' a significant other, as it is sure nice not to have to interrupt the, ah, 'activities' every 17-20 minutes to flip the record - or else have the needle play in the runoff all night! [] How quickly some forget the real advantages of CDs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That's why I suggest a semi-automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surround me with sound Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I have a direct drive technics turntable with a stanton cartridge. It still works great and I purchased it new in 1976. I believe they are still around for a fair price. I dont know if stanton even is making cartridge's anymore or not. As far as the sound of vinyl compared to cd...well that is a tough one. What I have found is the vinyl albums that I grew up listening to do sound better than the cd. I believe this is because thats the way I remember the music sounding. There is much more distortion and noise from a vinyl album from the simple fact there is contact from the needle to the vinyl. I remember the noise and distortion being part of the music. Over time the albums get crackly from the nights when your buddy decides to change the album for you and forgets to clean it. The convenience of a cd is certainly something to think about (as mentioned above). I guess it is a personal preferance thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That's why I suggest a semi-automatic. Granted you still need to flip the LP for the music to continue every 20 minutes (along with the 'social' expense!), but the semi-automatic with auto-lift at the runout does add to the life of the cartridge! That is but another reason why several of the Thorens are great deals! So many things to worry about! ...And to think that some folks think that audio is a simple subject! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 www.audioadvisor.com has some entry level record players though I can't say how good they sound. Used is a good way to go, some LP freaks are doing the old Technics direct drive thing, such players are readily available and generally reliable. Records will most likely sound considerably worse than CDs if you go this route. Trust me. Yes, they're reliable but they sound thin and lifeless. You're better off geting an older Thorens TD???? and spending a couple hundred on a good cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I used to DJ years ago and used all sorts of brands, but the cartridge is KEY to quality reproduction. Had an old AR, and then Pioneer, Techniques, and Marantz. I love the Bang and Olufsen (B&O) products but not sure if you can locate a used Beogram or not for the price you are seeking. Thorens....Excellent Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 www.audioadvisor.com has some entry level record players though I can't say how good they sound. Used is a good way to go, some LP freaks are doing the old Technics direct drive thing, such players are readily available and generally reliable. Records will most likely sound considerably worse than CDs if you go this route. Trust me. Yes, they're reliable but they sound thin and lifeless. You're better off geting an older Thorens TD???? and spending a couple hundred on a good cart. Damn! Thin and lifeless and it has been 26 years worth! There's always something else to upgrade. Edit: My LP's sound better than my cd's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 So that would make the old 45 and 78 speed records.............?????? JUNK?[] Now I gotta figure out what to do w/these extended play DISCO LP's. YES, there I said it! 3 boxes of 45's and 1 full box of EP LP's from the 1976 - 1980 era. Maybe I can donate them to a museum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Can someone recommend an entry level record player around 300 dollars ?? Can someone also breakdown why records are better than cd ? Last but not least will I be wasting my time with a record player if I am hooking it up to a modern day yamaha 2600 ?? I never listened to records but I keep hearing that the the sound is far superior than cd ? thanks Investing in LP's and playback equipment is a commitment. Since you have not experienced the format you might try to audition at a friends or a store (good luck there) to hear for yourself. As for your question about why they might sound better, the short answer is that the analog wave reproduced with vinyl is more like the analog wave of live music, it is a rounded curve. The wave from cd's is squared off due to the technology employed. The down side with LP's is that you will have to put up with pops and clicks to a degree determined by the condition of the record, plus there is more noise even when no music is coming out. CD's are pretty silent when silence is called for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 IF you decide to proceed, I do suggest you acquire an impulse noise reduction unit that will eliminate pops/scratches during playback without diminishing the signal to badly. Be forewarned, if the LP's are in BAD condition, then you'll hear several audible silent skips in the reproduction of the source material. If you haven't been around LP's, then PLEASE review/listen before purchasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I'm going back to my Technics direct drive semi-automatic. SL1700 This Thorens jumps all over the place, even properly set up. I guess my wooden floors are just too bouncy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Here are some basic tips that you might not be aware of if you're not familiar with vinyl playback. First, a cheap turntable will sound worse than a cheap CD player, but a really good turntable can sound better than any CD machine, so don't go too cheap on your turntable. If it's a half-decent T/T, it could be worth upgrading to a modern cartridge. A good shop will install it for you, as it's definitely more complicated than changing a lightbulb. Your Yamaha RX-V2600 should have a phono input (I think all models from the RX-V750 or RX-V659 on up have one). You'll also need to ground the turntable to the receiver, by connecting the ground lead from the turntable to the GND terminal on the back of the receiver. The phono input is needed because record cartridges put out their signal at a much lower voltage than CD players, so the phono input normally has a small phono amp built-in, to bring up the volume. Even so, you'll need to turn up the volume knob fairly high to get your music loud enough. With my RX-V750, I listen to CDs at between -22 and -32dB on the volume, but with LPs it's more like -8 to -16dB to get the same sound level. That doesn't make the amp work any harder, since it's amplifying a lower-level input to get the same output. The tech on the customer service line at Yamaha confirmed this to me when I called to ask why the volume seemed low. There are two types of cartridge, Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC). The phono input on your Yamaha will have adequate boost for MM cartridges, but not enough for MC cartridges, which have a lower output. This should be mentioned in your owner's manual. MC cartridges require a step-up transformer or a phono amp, plus they are more expensive, so you may not be looking at an MC cartridge anyway. As for why records are "better" than CDs, analog recording preserves more of the detail of the music, but it takes good-quality equipment to retrieve it. Better quality equipment also causes much less wear on records. Records are much less convenient than CDs, typically only having 20-25 minutes of music per side and no skip or random play feature, plus it's a bit a of a ceremony to clean the record before each play and perhaps demagnetize it after, but that's cool in a retro way, and good records can sound more "live" than CDs. As well, you can pick up good used LPs for not much money. Finally, avoid any temptation to call a turntable a "vinyl player" unless you want to sound like a knob... Pat on the Island Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Let me know Colter if yours sounds thin and lifeless so I will know how crappy my ears have been all this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I'm going back to my Technics direct drive semi-automatic. SL1700 This Thorens jumps all over the place, even properly set up. I guess my wooden floors are just too bouncy. Get a B&O tangential, as it's the only TT I have found that holds! Colter, I can relate to your problem [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I'm going back to my Technics direct drive semi-automatic. SL1700 This Thorens jumps all over the place, even properly set up. I guess my wooden floors are just too bouncy. Get a B&O tangential [] Then you can be a slave to their cartridges and stylus replacements. But hey, they look so Euro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsched with Yamahas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 cough, cough, yeeee-ahhhhh, Cartridges NOT CHEAP (Now he tells me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Opinions are being presented as facts here, keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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