whell Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I have a shot at a brand new 1200 or a used P3, both for around the same price: $400 delivered to my door. The Rega has the 200 tonearm, and has had the wiring upgrades, and had RCA outputs installed on the back so you can use the interconnect of your own choosing. Which one would you choose???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I can't comment on the Technics, but i am very happy with my Rega. The Technics Sl-Q303 that i also own dos'nt compare at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I'm not sure either, but I had both a P3 and a Technics SP10 w/3009II tonearm. I sold the Rega. The Technics combo walked all over the Rega in that particular case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 The SP 10 /SME is a highly regarded combination, the P3 and P2 are pretty close in performance to each other, i know there are a couple of members here using SL 1200's and are happy with them. I must admit to a preference for belt drive turntables, so for me the Rega along with its reputation (which not everyone here agrees with)and simplicity is a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 FYI - I corrected the original post. The comparison is btw the P3 and the Technics, not the P2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I'm not sure either, but I had both a P3 and a Technics SP10 w/3009II tonearm. I sold the Rega. The Technics combo walked all over the Rega in that particular case... The SP10 with 3009 tonearm is an anpples and orages comparison. Never been one for DJ turntables. Rega is cool. Music Hall MMF-5 is no slouch in the same used pricerange. http://www.musichallaudio.com/mmf_products.asp?show=true&prolook=mmf_5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I would choose the Technics. I can't live with the poor speed stability of rubber belt driven tables. The Rega arms don't allow VTA or azimuth adjustment which makes it hard to get the cartridge set up properly. The Technics, with its detachable headshell, allows for a cheap ($40) upgrade to a headshell with azimuth adjustment. I have a 20 year old Technics SL150 mkII and it works really well provided it is isolated on a sandbox on a wall shelf. I bought it cheap on ebay because I had a hunch that a direct drive would have more stable speed, so better pitch and dynamics. It also has a cleaner, more analytical presentation that I enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I would choose the Technics. I can't live with the poor speed stability of rubber belt driven tables. Many belt drives I've used and worked on have perfect speed stability. What belt drives have you listened to that had poor speed stability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Plus the relevance of accurate VTA adjustment is debatable, or at least there seems to be other more important factors to look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 The Rega P3 does have adjustable VTA. But Rega does it the correct way, they supply shims of varying thicknesses so you can get the VTA just right. Also I should say that the earlier versions of the Rega are known as the Rega Planar 3. The latest version, the Rega P3, is a vastly different animal. The plinth is now made of a new composite material and the motor has been upgraded to the same device as that used in the Linn Sondek LP12. The P3 is a very quiet deck and has excellent speed stability. You would have to spend an awful lot of money to improve on the latest P3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I would choose the Technics. I can't live with the poor speed stability of rubber belt driven tables. Many belt drives I've used and worked on have perfect speed stability. What belt drives have you listened to that had poor speed stability? I think you'll find that with a motor that cogs and an elastic rubber band (that is intended to take up that uneveness) you won't get close to "perfect." When the stylus tracks a heavily modulated loud transient, the increased stylus drag momentarily slows the platter, increasing the tension on the belt, then releasing it again as the speed returns to the nominal. This is clearly audible when compared to a direct drive, and idler drive or a belt drive with an inelastic belt (Galibier, Teres, Redpoint and Morsiani all use mylar, except the newes Teres which are now direct drive). The thing is, if you have only listened to rubber belt drive tables, you don't realize this effect exists, because that is your baseline normality. I have heard this on the Linn Sondek LP12 (I owned them for 25 years), the Regas, Nottingham Spacedeck and Hyperspace, the Michells, the Avid Volvere, the Kuzma Stabi S, the SME 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 The Rega P3 does have adjustable VTA. But Rega does it the correct way, they supply shims of varying thicknesses so you can get the VTA just right. Also I should say that the earlier versions of the Rega are known as the Rega Planar 3. The latest version, the Rega P3, is a vastly different animal. The plinth is now made of a new composite material and the motor has been upgraded to the same device as that used in the Linn Sondek LP12. The P3 is a very quiet deck and has excellent speed stability. You would have to spend an awful lot of money to improve on the latest P3. I don't count shimming as adjustable VTA because it isn't practical to change the VTA setting when going from a 180g pressing to a 140g pressing. I guess you could set the shim to be somewhere in between, so that the neither weight of records sounds its best! [] Take a listen to an LP12 playing complex rock - anything loud and fast with guitars, keyboards, voice and drums. Note how you get lots of upper mid bass, no real extension and in the loud passages you can't follow each of the parts - it goes kind of muddled. Then try the same track on a Galibier or Teres Certus. I know that Roy Gandy of Rega says that VTA isn't important - that's pure salesmanship protecting his interests and he would say that wouldn't he? The Rega with a solid diecast arm tube has no way of setting azimuth - it's very rare that the cantilever and stylus are absolutely perpendicular to the top surface on a cartridge body, so azimuth adjustment will invariably improve the set-up. The trouble is, we have all been fed a diet of half truths and fairy tales by the audio press and dealers. The reality is that modest gear, if properly set up can sound magnificent. I tried the Lenco experiment and in the process taught myself how to set up an arm and cart properly (designing and making my own set-up tools along the way) and I discovered for myself that it is possilbe to make a few hundred dollars worth of parts sound better than tables costing over $2000. But there's no money to be made in commercial audio saying that (the advertizers wouldn't like it) and there is an element of fashion in audio that has an influence - it requires self-confidence to pursue your own direction when there's so much peer pressure to conform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I would choose the Technics. I can't live with the poor speed stability of rubber belt driven tables. Many belt drives I've used and worked on have perfect speed stability. What belt drives have you listened to that had poor speed stability? I think you'll find that with a motor that cogs and an elastic rubber band (that is intended to take up that uneveness) you won't get close to "perfect." When the stylus tracks a heavily modulated loud transient, the increased stylus drag momentarily slows the platter, increasing the tension on the belt, then releasing it again as the speed returns to the nominal. This is clearly audible when compared to a direct drive, and idler drive or a belt drive with an inelastic belt (Galibier, Teres, Redpoint and Morsiani all use mylar, except the newes Teres which are now direct drive). The thing is, if you have only listened to rubber belt drive tables, you don't realize this effect exists, because that is your baseline normality. I have heard this on the Linn Sondek LP12 (I owned them for 25 years), the Regas, Nottingham Spacedeck and Hyperspace, the Michells, the Avid Volvere, the Kuzma Stabi S, the SME 10... I own and play direct drives, idlers and belt drives. I've got a Garrard 301, Thorens 124, Sony TTS4000, Marantz 6300, LinnLP12, Thorens 125, 160 etc. I find it very hard to believe that increase drag on the stylus is going to slow a spinning 5 to 10 pound platter. I've have my Linn set up right next to my Thorens 124. The phenomenon you describe is not clearly audible to me. But if it is to you then I can understand why you prefer directs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hey Scott, so many TT's and only one set of ears. This doesn't seem right. LOL!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I don't count shimming as adjustable VTA because it isn't practical to change the VTA setting when going from a 180g pressing to a 140g pressing. I guess you could set the shim to be somewhere in between, so that the neither weight of records sounds its best! [] I hear what you're saying dhtman. But frankly if I had to worry about changing the VTA everytime I switched between various pressings - I'd sell my turntable and use my vinyl as frisbee's. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Simple Depends on what you're planning to do with it ! If it's for home "audiophile" type listening to vinyl of various music types ... the Rega If you are a club DJ type and into battling, backspinning, scratch'n and stuff then the direct drive 1200 series Technics is the table of choice [] JMO WopOnTour PS> If it's REAL important to you, there are various low-cost VTA "on-the fly" solutions for the Rega arms... not a biggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I don't count shimming as adjustable VTA because it isn't practical to change the VTA setting when going from a 180g pressing to a 140g pressing. I guess you could set the shim to be somewhere in between, so that the neither weight of records sounds its best! [] I hear what you're saying dhtman. But frankly if I had to worry about changing the VTA everytime I switched between various pressings - I'd sell my turntable and use my vinyl as frisbee's. [] Well if you want convenience an iPod is pretty good, or a Squuezebox. [] I guess we all have different priorities - vinyl can sound way better than CD, but it demands work and attention to detail to get it at its best. I don't enjoy listening to an LP played with the VTA off, I just have to get up and adjust it. I only have to slacken a hex screw a quarter turn, slide the arm post about a sixteenth of an inch up or down and tighten the hex screw and the job's done. Maybe that's why an ugly old DJ table gives you all that functionality - it's designed for professionals! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Dhtman, You mentioned that we are being fed a bunch of half truths about audio etc. But when you say something like "When the stylus tracks a heavily modulated loud transient, the increased stylus drag momentarily slows the platter, increasing the tension on the belt, then releasing it again as the speed returns to the nominal." I have to wonder if that isn't a zero truth? This sounds to me like a made up argument direct drive manufactures and afficainados conjured up to promote their own particular drive choice. I might be all wrong, I'd like to learn more about it though. A .5mm hard stylus setting in a tiny record groove with maybe a couple of grams of down force doesn't seem to me to be able to exert enough of a drag on a 5 pound spinning platter to alter it's speed based on how complex the groove is that it is tracking? Maybe it does, I dont want to argue, I'd just like to figure this out. From where are you getting this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I don't count shimming as adjustable VTA because it isn't practical to change the VTA setting when going from a 180g pressing to a 140g pressing. I guess you could set the shim to be somewhere in between, so that the neither weight of records sounds its best! [] I hear what you're saying dhtman. But frankly if I had to worry about changing the VTA everytime I switched between various pressings - I'd sell my turntable and use my vinyl as frisbee's. [] Well if you want convenience an iPod is pretty good, or a Squuezebox. [] I guess we all have different priorities - vinyl can sound way better than CD, but it demands work and attention to detail to get it at its best. I don't enjoy listening to an LP played with the VTA off, I just have to get up and adjust it. I only have to slacken a hex screw a quarter turn, slide the arm post about a sixteenth of an inch up or down and tighten the hex screw and the job's done. Maybe that's why an ugly old DJ table gives you all that functionality - it's designed for professionals! [] I'm with Scott and Edwin here. My Basis has no VTA adjustment either and it sounds REALLY good. 240 grams or 120 grams, doesn't matter. Blows away CDs with virtually any decent recording. No adjustments necessary and no problems with speed. Come to think of it, I never had any issues with my Thorens TD165 or Music Hall MMF5. Any one of these tables sound way better than my DD Technics did. Maybe my particular Technics wasn't in the same league as some that you're describing but I can't imagine adjusting the VTA every time you play a different size LP has that significant of an impact on playback. I think I would have noticed. Hey, but what do I know anyway??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hey, but what do I know anyway??? Plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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