garymd Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hey, but what do I know anyway??? Plenty. Aw, shucks. (blush) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Adjustable VTA comes into play with more than just record thickness. Different height cartridges and different thickness of platter mat call for resetting tonearm height. I've got a thick Platter Matter (vintage or what?) on my Technics SL-1400MK2, but the tonearm height was simple to adjust with a single knurled screw and the index lines make the adjustment repeatable. As for DD or belt drive sounding better, there are very good turntables with each system. It appears that some folks really like Technics decks and some really don't. Could they be one of those items that works great in some systems and terribly in others? I'm really pleased with the sound of the Technics 'table in my system, but I'm sure that the people who don't like them aren't deaf and have found them lacking in their systems. The original poster was also asking about a new Technics versus a used Rega, for around the same price. I'd lean toward the new unit, but you can also get an SL-1200MK5 for not much more, and it has the LED stylus illuminator light (which should last nearly forever) instead of the bulb which can burn out and be a nuisance to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I'll echo what Gary said -- I also have a Basis, though with a heavier (18-lb., I think) platter, and speed and sound stability are excellent. The drive motor must be a possible source of speed variation, as I found the PS Audio P-300, a sine wave voltage regenerator, to make a he11 of a difference in clarity and smoothness of sound. A few others on the forum have said similar things, including MaxG after he added Clearaudio's apparently equivalent optional motor power supply to his top-line Clearaudio turntable. Especially given that experience, I frankly think the idea of needle-drag being audible on belt-drive TTs but not on direct-drive TTs is close to nonsense. My long-gone [Edit] Micro-Seiki DDX 1000 [end edit] DD was far surpassed by my subsequent Linn and other tables including my present Basis. As for the VTA, I set it on my Vector arm based on typical record thickness and have given it no further thought. Neither I nor any guests have ever any complaint that could be related to the VTA. I also left it alone after setting it on my previous Graham arm, which has to have one of the easiest VTA adjustments ever. VTA IS a serious issue, at the outset, but I'd hate to think it needs to be set for every record! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WopOnTour Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 IMHO dhtman is totally correct in his statements about belt vs direct drive. The rubber belts and heavy platters are in fact direct solutions to cogging issuesthat plague almost any decoupled motor drive system (especially with AC motors). But the belt DOES induce micro-speed variations (W&F) as it oscillates due to motor torque fluctuations and stylus drag. I just question whether the Technics 1200's direct drive system (or almost ANY vintage direct drive system) could really be considered superior due to their own issues/compromises like speed hunting (depending on the regulation method used- quartz phasing etc.), coupling/induction noise and obnoxious motor rumble passed through the platter. The Technics 1200 is NOT a Teres Certus As far as VTA and azimuth adjustments, if you've ever set up a table using a test record, you will find it DOES make a noticeable difference.Differences in cartridges and tonearm setup, can certainly affect the ideal tracking angle necessary for optimum playback. However, the necessity to install an on-the-fly adjustment system to compensate is not essential IMO and more personal preference. I have the basic Michell threaded VTA on my TD-800 and typically have set it up for 180g vinyl (which I have the most of) but I don't find it necessary to alter it each time for 200 or 140 (even though I have it marked for easy recall) mostly due to shear laziness and the fact that the effect is barely negligible when listening to most (but not all) material that I enjoy. It's more a comfort item that I CAN make the adjustment, should I feel the need (or a member of the Greek Audiophile Society is present WopOnTour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Rim drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Has the original poster made a decision yet? Dying to know here---- And the winner is: I don't know yet. The responses here are about 50/50. I've always thought that my old Pioneer DD table, which is starting to show its age, was one of the better sounding tables I've had - and I've had some decent belt drive tables (my current Thorens TD-145 for example). I'm leaning to the Technics, but some of the arguments here and elsewhere are giving me pause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 It has been my experience that Allan, Larry, Gary, Max and Mark know the score. I have a P3 and think its wonderful. When you consider value per dollar its a market leader. I doubt you would be disappointed in the Rega. Theyve been doing something right for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I have no issues with the direct-drive verses belt-drive debate (just as I have no preferences between PP/SET/SS amplification)...there are good and bad examples from both designs. If I could afford even the entry-level Clearaudio, VPI, Thorens, and Rega 'tables, I'd buy one. But I'm just as happy with my dad's mint '79 Technics SL-1700MK2 (as I was years before with my Denon DP-62L); every time I listen to a high quality 180 gram pressing, even with my discontinued TOTL Stanton 981HZS pro calibrated MM (or my old Sumiko Blue Point MC that needs replacing) it puts a big grin on my face when I think just how great this setup sounds for so little money. IMO, as long as you have an excellent, high quality cartridge (either MC or MM) that's compatible with your particular tonearm, that's what really matters (naturally, a well built 'table is a given, and both the SL-1200 series and the Regas are outstanding designs). The way I see it, you'd be set with either the SL-1200MK2 or the P3. It's all according to what strikes your fancy. Put a top-notch cartridge on its headshell, set the tracking, VTA, and any other adjustments necessary for optimum playback, and sit back and enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 ...agreed...nice sound from my almost perfect condition (and almost 30 year old) Technics SL-1300...with Shure V-15 Type III...but I can't tell you which is better...good luck with your choice...no back scratching here (unless it itches... ) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Has the original poster made a decision yet? Dying to know here---- And the winner is: I don't know yet. The responses here are about 50/50. I've always thought that my old Pioneer DD table, which is starting to show its age, was one of the better sounding tables I've had - and I've had some decent belt drive tables (my current Thorens TD-145 for example). I'm leaning to the Technics, but some of the arguments here and elsewhere are giving me pause. I can't imagine a Rega P3 being all that much of an uprgrade from a TD-145. Why not uprgade the arm/cartridge of the 145 instead? You can get one of those purpose built mounting plates for a VARIETY of arms for about $40 and then try a Rega or an SME (both would be a MAJOR step up from the stock Thorens arm) and a nice MC cartridge. I think you'd get a MUCH bigger bang for the buck doing this than buying a new table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Why not upgrade the arm/cartridge of the 145 instead? Excellent advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Has the original poster made a decision yet? Dying to know here---- And the winner is: I don't know yet. The responses here are about 50/50. I've always thought that my old Pioneer DD table, which is starting to show its age, was one of the better sounding tables I've had - and I've had some decent belt drive tables (my current Thorens TD-145 for example). I'm leaning to the Technics, but some of the arguments here and elsewhere are giving me pause. I can't imagine a Rega P3 being all that much of an uprgrade from a TD-145. Why not uprgade the arm/cartridge of the 145 instead? You can get one of those purpose built mounting plates for a VARIETY of arms for about $40 and then try a Rega or an SME (both would be a MAJOR step up from the stock Thorens arm) and a nice MC cartridge. I think you'd get a MUCH bigger bang for the buck doing this than buying a new table. The owning of the Thorens is a different bent on the objective. This Rega and Ortofon combo on Audiogon would be fun to try. I always had 100% on deals with Canadians. Armboard necessity may take a little study. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1171211633 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Has the original poster made a decision yet? Dying to know here---- And the winner is: I don't know yet. The responses here are about 50/50. I've always thought that my old Pioneer DD table, which is starting to show its age, was one of the better sounding tables I've had - and I've had some decent belt drive tables (my current Thorens TD-145 for example). I'm leaning to the Technics, but some of the arguments here and elsewhere are giving me pause. I can't imagine a Rega P3 being all that much of an uprgrade from a TD-145. Why not uprgade the arm/cartridge of the 145 instead? You can get one of those purpose built mounting plates for a VARIETY of arms for about $40 and then try a Rega or an SME (both would be a MAJOR step up from the stock Thorens arm) and a nice MC cartridge. I think you'd get a MUCH bigger bang for the buck doing this than buying a new table. Makes sense. However, I've had about zero expereince with this kind of work. I'm concerned that I might turn the Thorens into a paperweight. That said, the problem with the Thorens is that is now has a ground hum that won't go away. I suspect the arm needs to be rewired. Is there anywhere on the net that has step by step instructions about how to do this type of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Wow, I missed the part about you owning a TD145. Good call Allan. Whell, Go to the www.theanalogdept.com Go to the Thorens department and look over the section on the TD160 which is the same table as the 145 without the auto-shut off. There are a number of very nicely photographed adjustments and upgrades there for you, including a tonearm re-wire I think. I believe he goes a little overboard with all the chassis damping but I liked some of his instructions on suspension set up, and the heavier bottom board. A better arm would be a wonderful step. This route will require some work which I happen think is fun. Others might call it drudgery. If that's the case, then your easiest route is to grab one newer tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Wow, I missed the part about you owning a TD145. Good call Allan. Whell, Go to the www.theanalogdept.com Go to the Thorens department and look over the section on the TD160 which is the same table as the 145 without the auto-shut off. There are a number of very nicely photographed adjustments and upgrades there for you, including a tonearm re-wire I think. I believe he goes a little overboard with all the chassis damping but I liked some of his instructions on suspension set up, and the heavier bottom board. A better arm would be a wonderful step. This route will require some work which I happen think is fun. Others might call it drudgery. If that's the case, then your easiest route is to grab one newer tables. I don't know about drudgery, but my thought is risky. I've seen the info on that website, and alot of it is more than I feel confortable attempting. That is why I think a new table is most appealing, to me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Having tiny little fingers is a big help in that kind of thing. How about enlisting the girl in your avatar pushing the speaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I like this idea best: Buy this: http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and this: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1171211633http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem''>http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem' mce_href="http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"> No need to rewire ANYTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Allan, You've got two links to the same thing. Did you want the second one to be to something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 fixed link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I like this idea best: Buy this: http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and this: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1171211633http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem''>http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem' mce_href="http://cgi.ebay.com/THORENS-TD145-147-160-165-166-REGA-MOUNTING-PLATE_W0QQitemZ190066880691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ48648QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"> No need to rewire ANYTHING! I think this would be sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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