Raider Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 For Klipsch owners I'm preachin' to the choir... But if you are considering Klipsch as an alternative to most typical speakers, and especially very small HTIB type speakers, don't underestimate the significance of the efficiency of Klipsch speakers. I have four RF82's as mains and surrounds, and an RC62 as a center channel being driven by a Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. I find that a volume level of -20 db on this system is very loud, too loud for any prolonged listening. You can go louder, but it just gets uncomfortable; even then at extremely loud levels, I hear no distortion. By contrast, I have the same RX-V659 receiver powering a set of Definitive Technology ProCinema 60.6 speakers (their answer to Bose, and a very good one at that). I was surprised when I hooked up this system, because I had to approach 0 db to get a volume level that would be considered loud, and even then the sound is very compressed sounding compared to the Klipsch. It would take a lot more than the 95 watts per channel that the Yamaha provides to approach the volume of the Klipsch/Yamaha combination. The Klipsch speakers are very happy with this amount of power with plenty of headroom. Beyond just the sound pressure level though there are very tangible benefits to the Klipsch's efficiency. First are the lifelike dynamics that the additional headroom provides. In a world where most audio material is compressed to some degree, listening to Klipsch Reference speakers brings a new lifelike dynamic qulity to the music that instantly draws you into the audio material and makes you soon forget you are listening to speakers rather than to the original event. In fact it can often be startingly real. The headroom makes the HT experience very similar to what you experience in a theatre; no surprise given that Klipsch pro speakers are often used many theatres. But don't think that you have to listen to high sound pressure levels to appreciate the Reference speakers. Their efficiency makes them articulate at all volumes at which I Iisten. Even at very quiet levels I find them to be just as articulate as at moderate and high volumes. Its just that the excitement level goesup with the volume. Late at night with others asleep, I often listen at a level of -50 db on the Yamaha. Many speakers lose their essential signature at such low volumes. While it is hard to describe these differences, a good demo at your dealer will make these characteristics evident. In fact while I was looking, one of the most impressive demos I heard was at a Best Buy where a system of four F3's, a Sub12 and a C2 filled the expansive warehouse space with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, so much so that everyone in the store stopped what they were doing and looked in the direction of the clear and distortion-free sound coming from the audio section. If you are researching a potential Klipsch purchase here, I encourage you to carefully consider the significance of efficiency in bringing life-like dynamics back to music as you compare Klipsch to its peer products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Hey Raider, how's that HT turning out? Which way did you end up orienting the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think one point is WAY overlooked about Klipsch.......................They sound good at LOW volume too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Thanks Raider- very well said sir. For the novice, I'd like to add that it takes DOUBLE the amplifier power to attain 3 db more sound level. In other words if speaker B is 88 db efficient and speaker K is 100 db efficient, that 12 db difference equates to SIXTEEN TIMES the amplifier power required to reach the same volume. I'm sure everyone can appreciate how difficult this becomes when you talk about attaining realisting theatre-like volume in a normal home environment. In a very short time, speaker B is simply unable to take the power so the listener must either settle for less than desired sound levels or risk blowing up their speakers, IF they could afford all the power it took. With Klipsch a few more dollars in speaker efficiency saves hundreds in amplifier power. It's just a better deal, to say nothing of the difference in sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 For Klipsch owners I'm preachin' to the choir... ..I have four RF82's as mains and surrounds, and an RC62 as a center channel being driven by a Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. I find that a volume level of -20 db on this system is very loud, too loud for any prolonged listening. You can go louder, but it just gets uncomfortable; even then at extremely loud levels, I hear no distortion... FWIW, You may also want to try a Denon or HK AVR. I have owned several Yamahas (they make good products) but it wasn't until I replaced a Yamaha RXV -800 with a comparable Denon AVR-3803 that Imo, the high current design made it so I could play my material louder without it sounding so "Bright" in a large room.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplummer Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Also very well put Colterphoto, Just to give another comparison of what your saying, it's like power to weight ratio. If you have a heavy vehicle (Lower efficiency) more horsepower(increased amplification) is required to do the same amount of work or performance (Sound Pressure Level) as a light vehicle. That's why race car drivers want to pack as much power into the lightest package possible, then they have more control with the throttle as requirements dictate. In summary, Always buy the most efficient speakers (Highest DB rating at 1watt/1meter) that is in your budget range. Your ears will thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonytahoe Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I am a Klipsch first-timer. I have had my RB-61, RC-62, RW-12d set-up for about two months and the first thing that really struck me is how good the sound at lower volumes. I have a 7 month old daughter who seems to sleep all the time, so I do a lot of listening at low vloume. I have a Denon 2106 and it mates with my Klipsch great. I can sit and watch a movie at -20 to -15db without any ear fatigue and the room stills shakes. These speakers are awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 For Klipsch owners I'm preachin' to the choir... ..I have four RF82's as mains and surrounds, and an RC62 as a center channel being driven by a Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. I find that a volume level of -20 db on this system is very loud, too loud for any prolonged listening. You can go louder, but it just gets uncomfortable; even then at extremely loud levels, I hear no distortion... FWIW, You may also want to try a Denon or HK AVR. I have owned several Yamahas (they make good products) but it wasn't until I replaced a Yamaha RXV -800 with a comparable Denon AVR-3803 that Imo, the high current design made it so I could play my material louder without it sounding so "Bright" in a large room.[] Actually I didn't mean that they sound bright. I just meant that it can get too loud, uncomfortably so. Not bright, not colored, not distorted, just too loud for me. Interesting comment on the Denon nevertheless. I replaced an AVR-1803 with the Yamaha. (Directv installer put the PVR over the vents and the display apparently overheated and went out. Not sure if it is worth fixing. It still works, but I am "flying blind" as far as settings. Maybe I'll hook it up sometime and compare.) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Thanks Raider- very well said sir. For the novice, I'd like to add that it takes DOUBLE the amplifier power to attain 3 db more sound level. In other words if speaker B is 88 db efficient and speaker K is 100 db efficient, that 12 db difference equates to SIXTEEN TIMES the amplifier power required to reach the same volume. I'm sure everyone can appreciate how difficult this becomes when you talk about attaining realisting theatre-like volume in a normal home environment. In a very short time, speaker B is simply unable to take the power so the listener must either settle for less than desired sound levels or risk blowing up their speakers, IF they could afford all the power it took. With Klipsch a few more dollars in speaker efficiency saves hundreds in amplifier power. It's just a better deal, to say nothing of the difference in sound quality. Another thing to note is that speaker response to increase in input power isn't necessarily linear. As more power is applied the voice coil heats up more and more. The resistance then changes, and distortion increases as well as heat soak increases. This is especially true as the speaker reaches it's maximum excursion. There is an interesting discussion of this principle here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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