Calling all Jazz Cool Cats......

[NOSValves]

I just read this post below and it made me ask the question....What exactly is there to get about Jazz? I thought it would be better to start a new thread rather then side track Larry's.

Video killed the radio star.....

But seriously, if you want to listen to Brits you can find it. As for jazz, what an enigma. It is the most and purest form of American (USA) musical expression, yet the vast majority of Americans just don't get it. My sister in law once told me she just did not understand it. Once it gets mainstreamed enough for accessibility it isn't really jazz anymore as any jazz fan will tell you. I have a hard time understanding why it is so hard for fellow citizens to understand in their souls just what makes it so great. It started out as one of those things like rock---parents did not approve of their children being into jazz---yet still has this stigma, or is just too far out of the mainstream, while rock is being used to sell financial products. I could go on and on about this because to me it is frustrating.

[Klipsched with Yamahas]

It only took me 35 years to begin to appreciate that fine genre, but smooth jazz is my favorite. Still kinda picky and choosy about which jazz I select.

How you ask? By listening to some SQ soundtrack tapes (reference dics) used by IASCA for judging in years past. Slowly, but surely I began to get hooked!

[NOSValves]

Smooth Jazz I get completely and I enjoy it. The "Random horn blowing" genre is what I'm referring too. I don't mind spinning a single LP of it once and a while but if I listened to it day and day it would aggrevate the heck out of me.

[coda]

If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.

Louis Armstrong

[D-MAN]

Jazz is about the person playing it. That's it, and it's no longer of any interest for me.

I want music that doesn't have anything to do with ego or adoration. I want music that isn't "self-concious" or says "hey, look at me!".

But then, I'm an AH, too.

DM

[oldtimer]

Dman, it's not about the person playing it. The person playing it is expressing music in a medium that is all about freedom of expression, yet it is within rules that make it sound good. That's one reason why it is all American. It's like the constitution, with checks and balances, yet flexible enough to allow for new ideas. I don't know what you listen to right now, but when you get right down to it, all music has an element of "this is what I wrote" listen and enjoy. Mozart could sit down and improv his way to an a ovation, just as jazz players do. Will you not listen to Mozart because of this? What kind of impersonal music do you you listen to, and why? It's about sharing the experience of life with others, not so different than any other music, and it is ours.

[Fish]

I've always liked jazz variations,very musical thing.I'm not so much on the jazz horns lead kinda thing that I think of as traditional or old school jazz but it's ok.For the guys that do know the more technical terminology/genre,what would a band like Weather Report,Sea Level or even Steely Dan be called? Or...would you say these aren't any type jazz at all?

[oldtimer]

Smooth Jazz I get completely and I enjoy it. The "Random horn blowing" genre is what I'm referring too. I don't mind spinning a single LP of it once and a while but if I listened to it day and day it would aggrevate the heck out of me.

What do you mean by smooth jazz? Count Basie is smooth, but raw and exciting at the same time.

[oldtimer]

I've always liked jazz variations,very musical thing.I'm not so much on the jazz horns lead kinda thing that I think of as traditional or old school jazz but it's ok.For the guys that do know the more technical terminology/genre,what would a band like Weater Report,Sea Level or even Steely Dan be called? Or...would you say these aren't any type jazz at all?

Weather Report I would call latin jazz from the 70's. Steely Dan is definitely more rock and pop category. I like them both. I am totally ignorant of Sea Level.

[Klipsched with Yamahas]

Actually, Sealevel "Cats on the Coast" is classified as rock "believe it or not", since I looked them up and was gonna post a pic of an album for the next "name that album cover".

I see you what mean about some music falling in between the cracks though. Never did get into early jazz, but rather modern jazz, and here is an interesting link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_jazz_musicians#Early_jazz_musicians

[coda]

You've got to find some way of saying it without saying it.

Duke Ellington

[Fish]

"Cats on the Coast",I've love that album,and still have it,since I was 17.

[coda]

The real power of jazz is that a group of people can come together and negotiate their agendas.... and that negotiation is the art.

Wynton Marsalis

[Cody_Mack]

As of late I am diggin' on Latin Jazz, like they play on XM channel Luna. Pi$$ed me off when they took it off the satellite. But I still listen on-line - every night. With Latin Jazz you get a good mix; traditional, lots of energy and percussion, and most recordings are very good indeed.

I know a lot of folks bash XM because of the lower fidelity than CDs (and some say even FM), but I have been exposed to so much different music than ever before. Internet radio will also give you this if you look around. Just three years ago I listened to nothing but my old classic rock, but now I am into all forms of jazz, and am starting to crave classical. (related to another recent post, I am guessing my age also has a lot to do with that) I still like the old RnR, probably more than ever now that I have real equipment to listen to it.

My wife just approved my proposed "order a new CD a week", so to catch up I ordered three just now; two Latin jazz and one Modern jazz (Prophetz of Time and Space)

Rick

[garymd]

Sometimes you need to see it live to "get it." I think that would make a big difference to some of those who say they don't but have an open mind to it.

I'm not really sure if I "get it" from a technical standpoint any more than I do rock or classical but I really enjoy it!

[ben.]

Having some knowledge of the musical structure is helpful, but only gets you so far, and isn't really necessary for many.

Musical forms that are improvisational in nature can be tough to relate to. Whether it's Bach (you don't hear much of that played as it was intended, btw), Ravi Shankar, Gov't Mule, or Sun Ra, the goal is a moment that transcends language. It exists as a moment in time and space that can never be repeated. As a musician, I can tell you that for most of the folks I've played with it is primarily about ourselves and the feeling we get from it. It's extremely gratifying to reach listeners and share that moment, but all the good ones I've met would do it with no recorded document or audience to bear witrness. The most sublime musical experience of my creative life was shared by two other people (well, there was a guy on the couch, too but we kind of forgot about him) and I wouldn't change a note of it in exchange for an audience to share it with.

As to the issue of being able to relate to the genre I think it comes down to familiarity of the style and its forms. Folks that listen to classic or straight ahead rock can latch on to some pretty out there if ther are enough elements that are failiar to them. Zappa (though not improvisational - the music functions as though it were), the Dead, Phish, Mule and the Allmans aren't as tough to relate to when they go for it as there are plenty of musical elements that are familiar for more "mainstream" listeners. With jazz, the underlying structure is often implied, with all the players playing over a form or line that isn't actually being played in a literal way by anyone but is alluded to occasionally.

Hope this all makes sense. Coda's quotes are probably more on the money.

[Klipsched with Yamahas]

Hey Ben, can I put it into layman's terms? (lol) I kinda get your message, but would this be the same as music containing all the elements of feeling and expression. Maybe I'm the queer one here (figuratively speaking), but if it hits my "mind, body and soul" simultaneously, then I'm sucked right in!

While some jazz content is good, the expression isn't quite as meaningful and turns me off, so I guess what I'm saying is that music in its basic form is a form of "pleasure", with some hidden agendas on the part of the artist. Some agendas are well-defined, while other artists are like painters, communicating in an abstract form.

I hope this make sense, but having a hard time conveying my thoughts here.

[oldtimer]

Good points ben. "As a musician, I can tell you that for most of the folks I've played with it is primarily about ourselves and the feeling we get from it. It's extremely gratifying to reach listeners and share that moment, but all the good ones I've met would do it with no recorded document or audience to bear witrness." This is true, but it is true for all forms of playing, there is nothing different about jazz here. I am a musician and yes we play for the joy of it. That's why I will not draw a distinction that somehow jazz is all about the player but rock, country, whatever is not.

[Allan Songer]

Jazz is about the person playing it. That's it, and it's no longer of any interest for me.

I want music that doesn't have anything to do with ego or adoration. I want music that isn't "self-concious" or says "hey, look at me!".

But then, I'm an AH, too.

DM

If you really mean this then I can honestly say I feel as sorry for you as I have felt for anyone for any reason I have ever encoutered on an Internet Forum.

Jazz is about witnessing artists create and respond to one another ON THE SPOT. A great jazz musician walks onto the bandstand and can be told the name of one of HUNDREDS of tunes, decide on the key and the BAM! off they go--creating and communicating both with each other and with the audience. It's amazing--there is NOTHING like listening to a group of musicians who are all on the same page, flying. And if it's an original tune they've never seen before, a half sheet of music will set them off as well. No other form of Western musical expression can come close, at least for me. I see that a few of you have mentioned Zappa, The Grateful Dead and other "jam bands," but this is REALLY not the same thing--these guys played with each other for YEARS AND YEARS and communication was EASY since they were forever covering the same ground they had been over TOGETHER hundreds of times--yes no "jam" was the same, but you get what I mean.

I still don't understand the term "random horn blowing" unless you're talking about late Coltrane the REALLY free ESP-Disc or Sun Ra stuff. Personally, I LOVE this music but I CAN understand why some might be afraid of it.

As far as Steely Dan goes, the late great Bill Perkins, one of my all time favorite tenor players, was the "first call" sax man for just about all of their studio efforts. The offered him the gig to go on a world tour a COUPLE of times and he told me even though the money was GREAT, the thought of standing up night after night playing a solo over the same 16 of 24 bars during the same songs would have driven him INSANE.

[ben.]

Hey Ben, can I put it into layman's terms? (lol) I kinda get your message, but would this be the same as music containing all the elements of feeling and expression. Maybe I'm the queer one here (figuratively speaking), but if it hits my "mind, body and soul" simultaneously, then I'm sucked right in!

While some jazz content is good, the expression isn't quite as meaningful and turns me off, so I guess what I'm saying is that music in its basic form is a form of "pleasure", with some hidden agendas on the part of the artist. Some agendas are well-defined, while other artists are like painters, communicating in an abstract form.

I hope this make sense, but having a hard time conveying my thoughts here.

I guess my angle is that the communication and expression between musicians takes precedence over communication with the audience with more improvisational forms. I don't particularly like the term "agenda" in relation to the topic. I think it reflects more on Wynton's personality than anything else, though he is obviously a MF on his horn and leading a group.

I think it comes down to language and syntax. The most beautiful and sublime poetry in Russian will not grab my attention even if it unlocks the secrets of the universe. You gotta speak the language.