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Broadcast surround?


TKA

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Carlos, you mentioned that some movie channels broadcast 5.1 at primetime. Does the on-screen movie guide state this or did you find out by watching? I have the Synergy System hooked up to a Pioneer VSX-D509S Recv. I couldn't be more pleased with the sound. Especially for the price. Since I don't yet have a DVDplayer, I'm relying on Dish Network to supply me with the 5.1 . But not for long. Happy Day

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i have time warner digital cable & certain movie channels do put out 5.1 but the only time i ever got DD 5.1 was on the starz channel - civil action when I was getting a free promotion preview for 3 days. don't ever see it mentioned on the tv guide though.

just see it on the receiver display.

hopefully more broadcasts & publication to come...

------------------

RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub

Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 wire

Sony de935 a/v receiver

Sony DVP-C650D dvdp

Sony Trinitron 27" tv

Technics dual cassette deck

Technics direct drive turntable

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

rock on!

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Its sounds like 5.1 broadcasts are few and far between. Does anyone know if the regular channels abc,cbs,the history channel etc. use surround? I was watching the Daytona 500 and they had little sound moments when they said, crank it up on your surround system but I think it was just stereo.

Thanks

TKA

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The original Dolby surround used two channel in the transmission and/or storage system. A regular old Dolby or Dolby Pro-logic equipped HT receiver should be able to "decode" such transmissions or tapes.

Please note that if you play a VHS tape which is marked "Dolby", you are really only getting two channels of output from the VHS player. Then the receiver does the rest to produce the center and surround. The 0.1 is just a subwoofer at work.

If the station transmits a given movie in stereo, chances are you receive the same sort of audio on the VHS sound track. Therefore, an HT receiver set to Dolby Surround or Dolby Pro-logic will decode it.

Regards,

Gil

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derek, i think that assumption is correct since it will be transmitted on digital channels it'll be like digital video on steroids w/ digital sound but not necessarily

DD 5.1(AC-3) or DTS.

like the led zepplin song remains the same dvd - digital picture but it's only in DD 2.0.

i was referring though to the FCC yr2004 requirement (or whatever it is now - u know the gov smile.gif) that pertains only to hdtv video transmissions. hopefully they'll now require all digital sound transmissions to be in 5.1 or more smile.gif

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True High Definition TV has been defined by the govt' to have a)a 16 x 9 aspect ratio screen B)(i believe) 3,000,000 pixels c)Dolby Digital Sound. Anything less than these three parameters would be called Digital or Standard Definition TV. Today's High Definition broadcasts are still considered "experimental" so they do not generally conform to all 3 parameters...the one not being used in most cases is Dolby Digital sound. Some "High Definition" broadcasts fall even shorter from the "rules"

(ie CBS prime time in "HD"). The past FCC Chairman was very upset at the industry for "dragging their feet" with HDTV. The original deadline given to broadcasters and manufacturers was 2006, but the former Chairman wanted to make it sooner. It looks like the new Chairman may not be as hardline, but we will have to see. Add to that the different formats of HD broadcasts (such as 1080I and 720P) and the confusion and excuses are many as to why we are where we are (or are not) at this point. Good sound is coming to broadcasts, but it may be slower than we all want...

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phil, or maybe the new admin by being more pro free markets in all other areas of regulation will allow companies to meet the demand without the gov interference of rules of conduct, i.e., not restraining the companies that actually have the resources to do it. biggrin.gif

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Let me clarify a point.

It is my understanding that "5.1" actually refers to a speaker set up. Of course you need the amp to go with it.

Source material and decoding is a separate issue. As I was pointing out, Dolby and Dolby ProLogic decode from a two channel system of storage or transmission, such as VHS soundtracks. The major technique is L+R for the center and delayed L-R for the surrounds.

There's no reason why this couldn't use, tv stereo, vinyl, cassette, or even 8-track, for the two channels.

Other systems like Dolby Digital and DTS use true multiple channels.

Gil

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yea gil, a dolby prologic decoder works on any 2 channel encoded source to do what u say. what we w/ our 5 speakers & sub(lfe/.1) & dolby digital 5.1 & DTS decoders & transmission devices(set-top/dbs boxes) need is the source to be 5.1 channels. smile.gif

without that all were're getting is what u said - that prologic mix.

anybody remember the quad craze back in the 70s? to get the 4 distinct channels u needed a quad receiver or decoder, a quad/4-channel album source & even a quad cartridge on the turntable. that may not be the best analogy,

but we're missing the 5.1 channel album. smile.gif

but gil, some people may call their speaker set-ups 5.1, but 5.1 also refers to 6 channels encoded on the source material w/ the .1 being the lfe channel. dolby calls it dolby digital or " " 5.1. i think dts calls it dts digital surround. just semantics really. check out www.dolby.com or www.dtsonline.com for more info than we could possibly need smile.gif

now i wonder as phil said the FCC would require dolby digital w/ hdtv if they meant that or just dolby surround (dolby 2.0). dolby digital is 5.1 & I doubt the FCC even knows what that is. would be nice if so, but we also need to get out the pitchforks & lobby the cablecos, broadcasters, & movie producers. especially the broadcasters. biggrin.gif

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Rats, I don't have the book here. The "bible" on the issue is Tomlison Holman's "5.1 Sound, Up and Running", mentioned in previous posts by me. Very worth while the effort to study. And it does take an effort.

Getting back to basics of speakers. In a 5.1 set up of speakers, we have L C R (making 3). Then the two surround speakers are 4 and 5. If you use a subwoofer, that is the 0.1. In the classic Dolby Surround or Pro Logic, the surround 4 and 5 just get the same mono L-R signal from the two channel source. This is the L-R delayed by 10 milliseconds.

In that conception, the subwoofer just gets sent the bass from the two channels of input. There is no separate channel from the source for bass.

However, in later days, we have discrete input sources to our amps (as distinguished from speaker outputs). So by some schemes there are discrete L, C, R, up front. Also, L and R surround. Then there is yet another low frequency effect source, which gets sent to the subwoofer speaker. The sub can be fed with two sources. One is direct from the LFE source. The other is front or surround information which we choose to sent to it.

In the 6.1 set up, to my understanding, they add a derived center channel to augment the rear L and R, just like the original Dolby system, or Klipcsh system, derived a center for the front.

I'll have to post a diagram.

Gil

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gil, yea & now they have dts 6.1 where the rear center channel is an actual distinct channel & 7.1 w/ 2 distinct rear channels as well as 2 distinct surround channels. but for those of course the source must be encoded (& possibly broadcast) in that format. & i'm still stuck w/ 5.1. interesting though - wonder how many channels we'll go to before it stops. i think some of the theaters use like 25 channels?

i guess we're looking at it from opposite ends. chicken/egg thing- i think of the source as being the beginning-

1st u need the 5.1 source, then the transmission & decoding, then the output from the speakers - u don't have to have 5 speaks & a sub; it just helps to have those to hear the output smile.gif

any book on this subject probably used the published dolby & dts info for research & then added some original diagrams & opinions.

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