Building a Home theater, Went to Listen to some Speakers, Unimpressed, Help!

[Darien]

Maybe I just didnt get to listen to a good range of speakers. Maybe because it wasnt top of the line stuff. Here is the low down.

So I went to a high end audio spot and listened to some speakers, Listend to Music and DVD movies. When the Subwoofer was on, just about everything sounded great. When it was off. Just about everything sounded... well... not so good. Here is what i sampled. With how I felt the sound was reproduced

Klipsch RF-52- This had a nice good sound in the mids, the Highs to me were ok, The lows were very very shallow. Best about this were the Mids. These would be my fronts. I know these are not thier top of the line speakers and I hope there is alot of realestate between models.

Boston Acoustics Vr-1 This had a different sound, esp in the highs. Much different then the horn tweeter in the RF-52. Not a bad sounding speaker but mainly mids yet again. Low volumes are not its friend compared to the Klipsch it did not do well at low volume.

Boston Acoustics e-40 This sounded great with the sub turned on. Good highs, so-so mids, no lows. Uses same tweeter as thier top speakers,

Klipsch RB-51 This had alot better mids then the BA E-40, it would pop the mids, felt solid there but highs were muddy and lows as expected on the bookshelf were very weak. Sounded ok with the sub but... Not great.

KEF XQ1- Best of the bunch. Highs were fantasic, They really step out in front. The Mids were also great. This speaker was 2-3x the $$ of the other stuff I listened to, but still lacked the lows i wanted without a sub on. Just not worth the 1500-1600 to me.

What I am looking for in sound... My dad has 2 mint Forte's as fronts. These sound like heaven. But the catch is. They are Boat anchors!! I dont have room for these and I dont want the speakers in front to overwhelm the 42 inch plasma they will be sitting next to. The Fortes really give an emotional experience to the Music, movies. Even though the sub helps them along on the real insane lows, they stand alone well for fronts. Now if i can get that sound from a modern sized speaker/design. Just show me the model.

Should I be settling for front speakes that need a Sub to do all the work down low? Maybe i am just used to a 2 channel system that i've grown up with. Am I asking too much from modern front channel speakers? Just seems like alot of money for a speaker that only does 1 thing well. Show me the light guys....

[oldtimer]

I'm not sure I can show you the light you are looking for, but the forte or forte II sounds like what you really like. Join the club. As for footprint, I am not sure how much smaller something in the reference Klipsch line would be, but people around here seem to have lots of good things to say about the rf-83 and such. Take your time, listen to as many different speakers as possible, and then make an informed decision. Good luck and enjoy. Just don't settle for less than what you can live with and the money will not be wasted.

[colterphoto1]

BIG sound but invisible speakers- yup I get those calls every day. It's a compromise.

My personal theory- Big Bass needs Big Boxes. You can't cheat the laws of physics, right Roy?

[Darien]

I am def not expert on this, maybe I was just surprised that many of these speakers do not stand alone well. At least not IMO compared to what my limited experience with Home Audio has been. I did expect to get my hair blown back by some new speaker technology but instead i became nostalgic for the "older stuff" and I'm only 34!

Is it that newer speakers are more about channeling sound then trying to go full spectrum in any single pair? Has the subwoofer become the sole speaker that will produce the lows in a particular home system now? Should I not be concerned with individual sound quality but more of a cumulative experience? I really need some advice.

[bismarck]

I think it is only fair to test speakers as a system. It sounds like you have a really good ear. If you want speakers that have a smaller footprint but sound good I would chekout some Definitive Technology Bipolar Supertowers. These are great speakers because they are relatively small and the L/C/R speakers would all have a sub so nulls and peaks would be minimal. Unfortunately, they are about
much less sensitive than a comprably priced Klipsch. If you like the Klipsch sound, though, then yes, you are going to need a subwoofer to hit the lows. Not all subwoofers have to be huge. Alot of companies make some 8" subs with 1 powered, 2 radiating drivers that might give you some more space and could be used in conjunction with, say, a Klipsch RF-62 system that would not overpower a 42" plasma.

[SilverSport]

I may have missed it but could this be the problem???

If you were listening to these speakers as set up for Home Theater WITH a Sub and you turn the Sub off...aren't the crossovers set in the Home Theater PrePro going to still be sending signal to the now turned off Sub...perhaps this is the missing bass???

Try listening to these speakers again with the Mains set to Large when the Sub is off...or separately from a Home Theater PrePro...perhaps a 2 channel Receiver/Separates...

I have no experience with Forte's but their slightly smaller and younger brother...the Quartet sounds wonderful...should you get into Home Theater and get a good Sub...you can get away with smaller Mains like I have with Heresys...good luck!

Bill

[TNRabbit]

I agree with silversport; that was my first inclination to think the LFE was cut off to the speakers. Check it out.

[CECAA850]

Ditto the prev 2 posts. My RF-7's do not sound good at all with my sub off. In that scenario, they are not getting any (or rolled off) info below 80 Hz. If I turn the sub off and send the full signal to them (crossover disengaged) they come ALIVE. Be sure that the demo speakers are getting the full audio signal when the sub is off.

[colterphoto1]

yup, bet that's it. good call guys.

[Darien]

This actually has given me hope. I am going to try and give this another try sometime this week at the same shop and see if the speakers are in fact not getting the full signal. Good advice right there!

He did switch to a CD after first showing me the DVD. I have no idea if he made the switch to somehow send all channels to the Speakers or not. I will investigate and report back.

[skonopa]

This actually has given me hope. I am going to try and give this another try sometime this week at the same shop and see if the speakers are in fact not getting the full signal. Good advice right there!

He did switch to a CD after first showing me the DVD. I have no idea if he made the switch to somehow send all channels to the Speakers or not. I will investigate and report back.

Merely switching from a DVD to a CD is not going to change the crossover/bass management settings in a pre/pro. The sales person should've also switched the pre/pro into "two-channel" or "direct" mode, in which case, you would be getting the full two-channel signal straight to the front main's left and right amplfier channels, without going through the pre/pro's digital processing.

As for the speakers themselves, if you are looking for anything like the Forte II sound, you will definitly be looking at something like the larger RF-82 or RF-83 speakers to get the equivelant. However, those RF-83s are going to be pretty much the same price as those KEF speakers you mentioned.

[Budman]

Maybe I just didnt get to listen to a good range of speakers. Maybe because it wasnt top of the line stuff. Here is the low down.

So I went to a high end audio spot and listened to some speakers, Listend to Music and DVD movies. When the Subwoofer was on, just about everything sounded great. When it was off. Just about everything sounded... well... not so good. Here is what i sampled. With how I felt the sound was reproduced

Klipsch RF-52- This had a nice good sound in the mids, the Highs to me were ok, The lows were very very shallow. Best about this were the Mids. These would be my fronts. I know these are not thier top of the line speakers and I hope there is alot of realestate between models.

Boston Acoustics Vr-1 This had a different sound, esp in the highs. Much different then the horn tweeter in the RF-52. Not a bad sounding speaker but mainly mids yet again. Low volumes are not its friend compared to the Klipsch it did not do well at low volume.

Boston Acoustics e-40 This sounded great with the sub turned on. Good highs, so-so mids, no lows. Uses same tweeter as thier top speakers,

Klipsch RB-51 This had alot better mids then the BA E-40, it would pop the mids, felt solid there but highs were muddy and lows as expected on the bookshelf were very weak. Sounded ok with the sub but... Not great.

KEF XQ1- Best of the bunch. Highs were fantasic, They really step out in front. The Mids were also great. This speaker was 2-3x the $$ of the other stuff I listened to, but still lacked the lows i wanted without a sub on. Just not worth the 1500-1600 to me.

What I am looking for in sound... My dad has 2 mint Forte's as fronts. These sound like heaven. But the catch is. They are Boat anchors!! I dont have room for these and I dont want the speakers in front to overwhelm the 42 inch plasma they will be sitting next to. The Fortes really give an emotional experience to the Music, movies. Even though the sub helps them along on the real insane lows, they stand alone well for fronts. Now if i can get that sound from a modern sized speaker/design. Just show me the model.

Should I be settling for front speakes that need a Sub to do all the work down low? Maybe i am just used to a 2 channel system that i've grown up with. Am I asking too much from modern front channel speakers? Just seems like alot of money for a speaker that only does 1 thing well. Show me the light guys....

when did fortes become boat anchors. 2 fortes along side a 42 inch plasma would be sweet

[Darien]

HAHA Sorry if I stepped on any toes with that comment. I love the Fortes. Its just that I live in an apartment. Wanted something that took up less horizontal real estate but with similar sound. I was making a big an assumption that 20 years could yield better sound in a smaller package.

I hate to bring this up in here, But kinda like what Bose is doing. Ok now that being said i am going to put on my FLAME SUIT! I know what the audio community really thinks of Bose LOL.

[Bill H.]

Darien,
I realize this isn't the "real time" HT, but I' am looking forward to its release.

Klipsch Amplifies TV Sound With Add-On Audio Solution

New 2.1 virtual surround sound system easily enhances viewing experience

INDIANAPOLIS (January 8, 2007) Listening to action-packed flicks and gripping movie performances through a flat-panel televisions tiny built-in speakers often yields a lackluster entertainment experience. The latest CS-300 system from Klipsch easily solves this dilemma by adding virtual surround sound to an existing video display without bulky equipment or complex wiring.

[Darien]

Thanks Bill, This is a very excellent option for me. All I have to do is hear it. Any idea what its going to cost? I am open to any and all suggestions short of Go F&%K Yourself! LOL.

[Bill H.]

Darien,

Here is the Link to the Artcle. Release is due in April ! Cost around, 499.00 !

http://www.klipsch.com/news-center/press-releases/details/klipsch-amplifies-tv-sound-with-add-on-audio-solution.aspx

[JJkizak]

I have to kind of say not to give too much credibility to what you hear at those stores as they have hundreds of speakers hooked up to some kind of interface with pushbuttons that they don'e even know what goes where. You have to actually go up to the speaker in question and feel the speaker cone to make sure it's the one you want to hear. I heard nothing that came even close to a Corwall or K-horn. The bass was completely missing, and they didn't know how to connect in the subs. Actually it was God-Awfull. In the early 1960's, after reading the "King Klipsch" review in a stereo mag that I have since forgot, I ordered the K-horns and Cornwall based on that review. I would cut some kind of deal with some of the people near you to hear systems at their homes.

JJK

[skonopa]

Thanks Bill, This is a very excellent option for me. All I have to do is hear it. Any idea what its going to cost?

I am looking forward to checking one of those out myself, as a viable option for my parents to get better sound than the crappy little speakers out of thier TV.

I am open to any and all suggestions short of Go F&%K Yourself! LOL.

The folks on here are really good about providing good suggestions, especially if given enough details about a particular scenario. The only way you'll get told to "Go F&%K Yourself" is if you came on here acting like a complete ***. Fortunatly, that has been pretty rare, and the couple times it does happen, they are usually put in their place pretty quick.

Hopeing that you do find something that'll suit your needs and taste, although those Forte II's you currently have are no slouch. I'd at least try to make them work if at all possible. If not, I am certain there are few folks that would be more than happy to buy them off of you on here. Finding a good speaker is not always an easy task. Good luck with your search, and let us know what you eventually come up with, wether it be you decide to stick with the Forte's or found something else.

[JetJockey]

Hi all, hate to brag[], but my Rf83's friggin pound out the bass with or without the Paradigm PW2200 adding to the mix, did I mention this is a real bad a** sub?

[Darien]

Steve,

Thanks for the info. The Forte I's are actually my fathers. I grew up listening to them on Sansui Tube amps and later SS yamahas, Sony's and Finally Pioneer Elites. I like them and if I had more room I would welcome a used pair or more to my apartment. He still has them and he bought then new in 85. Well I am 34 now and Live about 5 states from thier house so i dont get to listen to them very often. He has been able to keep his Speakers mint even though while growing up we moved alot as he was in the Military.

We even lived Close to you Steve in Aquia Harbour in Stafford for a while. Now he Lives in New Hampshire and its not likely he will ever sell those speakers. There is a guy on here selling some Chorus II's and an academy center I may consider if I cant figure out a plan to size the HT down a bit.