ZAKO Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 With enough outgassing from this forum.....horns will work on the moon. But getting a long enough cord for AC to power the amp. is the problem.....Yes the Jubs can sound pretty. But will they have the mean spirit & slam of a WARTHOG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I was kind of wanting a simpleton answer if the 1601 could be bolted into the bass bin without any drilling or cutting and weather or not the crossover networks would have to be changed. Thanks, JJK My friend - did you forget where you were? A simple answer is viewed here as niether practical nor probable..... LOL perhaps I'll start a Schordengers Cat discussion in the genereal forum : ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat Iain, So what is the release date for the new Schordengers Cat CD? tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Interesting thread, wish I understood it. Understood what? [*-)] tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 This thread has drifted from its original thought of useing a very unique woofer in the Khorn bass bin, to renaming the Jubilee in jest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 T'would be nice to get a summary statement about the TAD. Per AlK The K33 is an 8 ohm woofer and so is this TAD. But will they be the same under load? I don't know. Maron uses an active crossover with his TAD's. Will a passive crossover work or not? Als ES networks allow for modification of both the mid-range and tweeters. Would these allow the 1601 to work or not? Is this the pinnacle of the diminishing returns argument or are these really worth their enormous expense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Did Al indicate that the K33 was an 8 ohm woofer or that his networks (ALK Sr., ES) show an 8 ohm load coming from the woofer? I remember some saying K33s were 6 ohm drivers??? http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/221153.aspx <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/205425.aspx I do not know enough technical "stuff" to tell one way or the other....................I agree - it would be nice to know though. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 The K-33E is a 4 ohm driver. I think the confusion may come from the fact that once it is in a bass horn and used a compression driver, the impedance goes up. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 How does (mechanical) compression raise the (electrical) impedance? I probably would have lost a case of beer betting on that one. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Oh the impedence goes up all right, Through the roof !!! But I dont care. The speaker is coupled to the amp, not the passive Xover. Sure it costs more to do it that way...But I like the results...Its still cheaper than all these $60,000 to $100,000 Wilson or Everest speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Question remains....... Can the TAD 1601A be used in place of the stock K33 using a passive crossover given whatever each of their respective resistances do or don't do under load or not under load....and is it worth the cost to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Well, that seems like asking for an opinion - and I just happen to have one available! In my opinion, due to the relatively narrow bandwidth involved (Khorn -6db @ 400Hz), I'd say no, it's NOT worth that kind of money for what you are going to get out of it (6 times the money as compared to a K33E). Do you REALLY think that you are going to get 6 times an improvement out of a TAD? Not likely, so it doesn't make economic audio sense (now that's a real misnomer!). The TAD is a stronger motor than a K33E, but it doesn't give any increase in power handling or excursion. Improvement - possibly, but more likely a change in "flavor". However, it looks good for a larger slot size, too, although it would probably be fine in the standard 3" wide Khorn slot. Is it a viable alternative driver for a Khorn - yes. Would you have to change the inductor on the crossover? yes. But as to whether it is worth the money... Throwing that kind of dough into a Jub would make more sense to me because it has an extended bandwidth capability that could make some use of it, seems to me... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Well, that seems like asking for an opinion - and I just happen to have one available! In my opinion, due to the relatively narrow bandwidth involved (Khorn -6db @ 400Hz), I'd say no, it's NOT worth that kind of money for what you are going to get out of it (6 times the money as compared to a K33E). Do you REALLY think that you are going to get 6 times an improvement out of a TAD? Not likely, so it doesn't make economic audio sense (now that's a real misnomer!). The TAD is a stronger motor than a K33E, but it doesn't give any increase in power handling or excursion. Improvement - possibly, but more likely a change in "flavor". However, it looks good for a larger slot size, too, although it would probably be fine in the standard 3" wide Khorn slot. Is it a viable alternative driver for a Khorn - yes. Would you have to change the inductor on the crossover? yes. But as to whether it is worth the money... Throwing that kind of dough into a Jub would make more sense to me because it has an extended bandwidth capability that could make some use of it, seems to me... DM Thanks..... Same thing Al K says BTW (even though his networks cross at 450). Sometimes it seems like we kick all about an issue but don't come right out and clearly say whats what. Audio idiots like me are sheep. We know we're easily lead but want the smart leaders to do so. So we bug the hell out of you audio smart guys for the answers. It is most appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Ah ha!. What I was getting at is sometimes when different weather fronts move in (Low Pressure/High Pressure) that my system sounds a bit louder or softer with the same volume setting. The pressure levels that the drivers are operating into affect the impedance (if that statement is accurate) and consequently change the volume levels and sometimes clarity. I have noticed this since 1965. Now I know why. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Dman,,,,Possibly, possibly, possibly...No its not a change of "flavors" & you dont have to change the slot. Yes you have to revise the passive xover.....Is it worth the money? well I paid $200. for the TAD 1601a woofers......No its not a Jubilee WARTHOG.....In fact a warthog pet would look prettyier. But like I said the expieriment started with a JBL 2205 (early design) Others have verified it works (with there own 2205 & ears) ...Speculation dont count,,,Pluck down your nickle & do the work....Speculation talk is cheap. Ive thrown down the gauntlet, now do the work. Armchair speculation is no substitute for doing doing the work..When Ashworth did the findings for Paul on what woofers worked the "why" always came up. Proper cone damping & moter design helped...even how many turns of wire & weight of bobbin. A difference in weight of copper or aluminum vc was made. Every thing was dicected. weighed and measured....Yes money was spent but results were found......Dman dont take this wrong...I really respect your findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 How does (mechanical) compression raise the (electrical) impedance? I probably would have lost a case of beer betting on that one. JJK http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/concepts/impedance_3.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Maron, well, I did say it was a viable alternative! For $200, I'd say hell yes! $750? - that would be a hell no! But that's just my opinion. You NEED to write this stuff down for posterity! Who is going to set us straight after you're gone?! Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Dman.....I have a ghost writer. I will haunt this forum.. I was down stairs early this morning dismantling everything in the Klipschorn.....Took out the woofers....Pulled the Smith horns off the top, Pulled the tweets... There they sit. empty cabinets....a clean slate... What am I up to? He he he he he he he he. !!!!!!!! cackle snort. !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Dman.....I have a ghost writer. I will haunt this forum.. I was down stairs early this morning dismantling everything in the Klipschorn.....Took out the woofers....Pulled the Smith horns off the top, Pulled the tweets... There they sit. empty cabinets....a clean slate... What am I up to? He he he he he he he he. !!!!!!!! cackle snort. !!!!! Please excuse my ignorance but what are these Smith horns of which you speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So now that atmospheric pressure affects the impedance of the horn loaded drivers why are not the specs of Klipsch published in three modes: Specs for barametirc pressure of 30.00 Specs for barametric pressure of 29.00 Specs for barametric pressure of 31.00 The SPL and distortion levels will be different for all three levels of pressure. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Seti.....A distributed- source horn. Designed by Bob H Smith.. Refer to Audio Eng. May 1951....Sound appears to originate from the entire area of the horn rather than from throat as in a conventional horn...The JBL version was the 2397 (24" wide) Mine is 31" wide plus I have a smaller version for tweeters 10" wide. In the horizontal plane the directivity pattern is broad because a large portion of a circular wave is generated. But verticly its a diffraction slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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